TRT and Blood Pressure Live Event

Chris Neal and Sam Ridgeway hold a live event with our Viking Community to discuss TRT and Blood Pressure.  How does TRT impact your Blood Pressure. What should your blood pressure be and other questions from our Viking Community!


[00:00:00.085] – Sam Ridgeway

All the time and a lot of people have, which is high blood pressure and how does that go along? Just high blood pressure in general. For an overview before this whole thing, Chris and I were talking. There was so much stuff I didn’t even know that he was telling me that he was going to share with you. But how does that also tie into hormone replacement therapy – TRT – and so on? Is there a correlation between those? So let’s just jump right into it.



And Chris, so what exactly is high blood pressure and what causes it?


[00:00:29.015] – Chris Neal

Yes, so first, look, first of all, he mentioned that all of this is is all connected and that’s one of the things about hormone replacement therapy. Really being able to do this well is that we have to look at the entire person we have to look at everything. We can’t just compartmentalize and say, OK, your numbers here, look at your numbers here, look at bye bye. Have a nice day, because it all matters. T  At the end of the day, It’s not about numbers. It’s about feeling at your best. It’s about getting the most out of life. So this is something that’s used. It’s really, really important. So back to the question. What is blood pressure and why is it so important?  Blood pressure is basically it comes down to basic plumbing. Is it basic plumbing in your in your body? OK? It’s a system of your heart, right? Your heart is the pump. And if it doesn’t have to be complicated, your heart is the pump and then you have your blood vessels that send blood out of the your arteries and blood away from the heart. And then your veins take that blood and bring it back into the heart. Obviously, blood has to go all over your body. OK, so it’s important in any pump. You never want to stress out your pump. Right. And any time the pump has to work too hard, it’s overworking. The pressure at the pump has to use the force.



Blood throughout the body starts to go up and then you’re going to overwork your pump. And just like any sort of plumbing situation, if you overwork your pump, it’s not a good thing. So we’re looking for we’re looking for longevity here. It’s a marathon, not a sprint right about now. Living at our best, though, so it’s really important to to to keep this in check. Now we have we have numbers in order to look at that.


[00:02:07.245] – Chris Neal

And and this this right here is our system. Everybody’s heard this before. There’s two numbers, 120 over 80 – a number that everybody talks about. Right. So that’s our systolic number over our diastolic number. OK, so what did what did those two numbers mean? Well, basically, basically, sistolic, I can only use a little I mean, this right here is this is a spot just for the people that still wash their own cars out a bunch of things.


[00:02:36.585] – Chris Neal

So our systolic number here, that is the number that accounts for how much pressure, maximum pressure this is that the heart has when it’s doing this, when it’s squeezing and squeezing all of the blood out of the heart, basically. OK, so diastolic is the minimum pressure when the heart is relaxing, not just relaxing, but filling OK. So that’s when that’s the minimum the minimum pressure in between beats. So every time you squeeze, that’s a beat.


[00:03:09.905] – Chris Neal

Right. And every time you. Relax, you’re filling – the hearts filling back up. OK, so if you’re if you’re getting a really strong squeeze. But you’re not relaxing enough and then you squeeze again and you’re not relaxing enough and you squeezing in and relaxing and you squeeze again, then you’re not feeling comfortable as punch. Right. You know, it takes a really strong squeeze and then it takes a really nice fill. The higher the number for your systolic, the harder your squeeze.


[00:03:42.485] – Chris Neal

You don’t want to squeeze too hard, but you want to squeeze just hard enough. Right now, the diastolic number, that’s how that’s how we’re feeling. OK, so you don’t want to you don’t want to take it and just sit there all day. You know, it has to have amount of time. But but then you you also you also don’t you also want to see if if your diastolic number is too high, that means you’re not filling up.


[00:04:08.345] – Chris Neal

So that’s like a kind of an opposite or inverse number to look at. The higher the number that you’re not filling, the lower the number. That means you’re feeling better. OK, OK.


[00:04:17.885] – Sam Ridgeway

Is there an importance of those numbers between which one is is more important? Is it more important when the heart’s filling or is it more important when the heart’s pushing? Which number do you worry about? More than another number.


[00:04:30.725] – Chris Neal

They both both are important.


[00:04:32.255] – Chris Neal

And there’s really not one that’s more important than the other is just understanding both of them. OK, so you’ve got to have a good squeeze on your sponge and you’ve got to have a good relaxation or film effect. So now I’m sorry about your question. No, no, no.


[00:04:46.625] – Sam Ridgeway

Continue. I like the one with the heart, the kidneys. I don’t even know the heart and the kidneys had to do with anything with blood pressure.


[00:04:51.575] – Chris Neal

But yeah. So so this is a plumbing system. It’s it can be very, very complicated. There’s a lot of things that can happen. So how do we are how does our body maintain what we call – in science terms – we call it homeostasis, but how do we call it how how do we establish a good balance with our heart and our in our pressure? So one of the big factors that the body’s able to use to control how much pressure or how to control your own blood pressure is your kidneys.


[00:05:19.865] – Chris Neal

Your kidneys are responsible basically for how much water you have in your body or how much fluid you have sitting in your body. If you have too much fluid, then guess what? Fluid goes to the filter and you pee it out. It’s out of the body or it’s gone. Right. And so if you’re if you’re holding on to water, you need to hold onto more water because you’re not getting enough. Your kidneys block off that filter, basically.


[00:05:44.435] – Chris Neal

And that’s that’s extra water that that’s held in your bloodstream. OK, so now if you take an enclosed system that that the that the the the vasculature are the cardiovascular system is basically contained. OK, but if you if you imagine a a plumbing system with rubber hoses that’s contained and let’s say you increase the amount of fluid in this contained system by, say, 20 percent or 15 percent or something. And then then what’s going to happen? All of your rubber, all of your rubber tubes, your rubber plumbing is going to expand.


[00:06:20.015] – Chris Neal

It’s going to be a little thicker. Right. And then you’re pump because of this extra pressure that’s going on. The pump is going to have to pump harder, this extra that this extra fluid going through. So that’s why it’s so important  that we’re careful about how we eat certain things that we do, like water, weight gain. All of those things play into that. Our kidney health, if we’re stressing out our kidneys because we’re over protonated and eating way too much protein and our kidneys can’t do their normal job of maintaining this balance right here, then yeah, we’re going to have some blood pressure issues and it’s all connected.


[00:06:52.415] – Sam Ridgeway

So all those protein drinks and everything slamming down all that protein can actually cause high blood pressure.


[00:06:58.075] – Sam Ridgeway

Yeah, oh, yeah, anything the stress on the kids? Yeah, I know that that’s good information, especially for a lot of guys out there that think throwing down the protein all day is, you know, is the best thing it may be. That’s fine. If your body isn’t it doesn’t have a predisposition to high blood pressure. Maybe your body can regulate that. But if you’re throwing down the protein all day and you have high blood pressure, maybe that’s something that you should just at least consider changing just to see if if you can modify those numbers.


[00:07:25.585] – Chris Neal

Well, the thing is, this going to happen to young or old predisposition or not? I think it’s a lot. So there is a way to determine the age old question, how much protein should I be taking it? You know, everybody always wants to know that, you know, and when and what do you do? You go to the gym and you ask the biggest guy in the gym , like, hey, how much protein should I be taking it?


[00:07:43.195] – Chris Neal

Eight hundred. Eight hundred grams. Yeah, yeah. I will tell you what, two grams per pound of body weight or one gram for about a body that’s like OK, well I’m four hundred and fifty pounds and like you know, does that mean that I need like 900 grams of protien. No it doesn’t. So what it really comes down to is looking at your labs, I can look at someone’s lab in their CMP, their complete metabolic panel –  I talked about that in the in the last video series I did.


[00:08:07.015] – Chris Neal

And I can look at certain numbers and determine how much protein your body’s taking it because the excess protein that your body, your anabolic body is not using for rebuilding, guess what? It has to be worked out through the kidneys and it starts to stress out the kidneys. I’ll see that right away. And I can tell you, hey, OK, you’re doing great on your protein. You need to go up in your approach. You need to go down on your protein.


[00:08:28.225] – Chris Neal

And that’s how we that’s how we review labs.


[00:08:30.695] – Sam Ridgeway

Gotcha. Well, I want to throw something in here real quick. This is interactive, which means you can ask questions as we go along and do this, which we want. Obviously, we don’t want to make this preaching to you. The reason I do these live stream, Chris and I do these live streams is because you can ask questions. I look over at this one screen. I see your question, then I. I can ask him.


[00:08:46.975] – Sam Ridgeway

So in order to do that, to consolidate all those questions in one spot, it’s live liveikeaviking/chat. So live live liveikeaviking/chat. \that’s where the chat screen is that comes up on this window over here that I can see. So, Chris, let’s just keep going while people are logging into their it. Let’s just what is it? What numbers means you’ve actually crossed over to potentially having high blood pressure.


[00:09:10.555] – Sam Ridgeway

What’s that limit where you’re like, OK, I don’t have high blood pressure now.


[00:09:13.915] – Sam Ridgeway

I do.


[00:09:15.255] – Chris Neal

So it’s important to understand blood pressure is a very dynamic thing, your body is designed to go up and down and your blood pressure when you’re at rest at nighttime, when you’re laying down to sleep just before you fall asleep, your blood pressure is very low. It’s it’s it’s at its calm point. OK, if you’re if you’re laying down a bed and the fire department pulls up at your door and the banging on the door, you know, like open up and you jump out of bed, you’re frightened.


[00:09:40.005] – Chris Neal

You know, your adrenaline is running. Adrenalin stimulates your blood pressure and your heart rate. Then your blood pressure is going to go up quick. It’s designed to go up quick. If it doesn’t  – if your blood pressure, doesn’t catch up with you and you jump out of bed as the people that fall flat on the floor, they jump out of bed because their blood pressure did catch up. But but it is designed to be a very, very dynamic thing. So we usually check our blood pressure when we are at rest.


[00:10:06.895] – Chris Neal

OK, so that’s why the doctor’s office in general is one of the worst places to check your blood pressure because, you know, you got the white coat syndrome, you know, like you’re thinking, oh, my God, you know what’s I’ve had this time? So, yeah, your your your adrenaline is going to be going and stuff. And so so, yeah, it’s if it’s not a good place. So getting a blood pressure machine for yourself to have at home is a really good thing to do.


[00:10:29.265] – Chris Neal

And you can document that. Just keep bringing it to your doctor. You know, that’s always very helpful. But we were talking about the machines that we were talking about machines earlier and the different types that you can buy from the pharmacy. I have it. I have a nice little machine. I prefer the machine to go around the upper arm. Basically, you know, those are those are always pretty good with the digital ones are fine. The smaller ones that go around your forearm or even the finger and stuff, those are those are basically garbage like, you know, they’re not very accurate, but they have some pretty sophisticated mixing.


[00:10:59.145] – Chris Neal

I think Sam or were yours is pretty cool.


[00:11:02.205] – Sam Ridgeway

Yeah, I like an AQ check or something. It has it records what previous readings.


[00:11:08.685] – Sam Ridgeway

It also sends in Bluetooth over to your phone so you can see it on there. And you know, I mean I always get the craziest toys anyway. But if I, if you’re going to get a twenty dollar machine, it’s probably not going to do too much for you. I mean, it’s not that they’re cheap, but when you get a good one, you can use it the whole family can use. So you can have it there for, you know, everybody keeps different profiles so you can check with different profiles. So it is kind of an investment for the family. So just if you’re going to do that and have one at home, get a good one, because if you’re not getting good readings, you’re not doing yourself any favors anyway.


[00:11:39.135] – Chris Neal

Absolutely. Your health is important. Absolutely.


[00:11:41.685] – Sam Ridgeway

So so I see that BP crisis looks like 180….. That’s my next question is what is that point with which you’re like, oh my gosh, I need to get to a doctor because my blood pressure is so high, it’s going to start really cause problem. What’s that? Critical zone.


[00:11:59.055] – Chris Neal

Critical zone BP crisis. So, yeah, what I have over here. So a systolic. And so that’s not just one particular number, a systolic over one eighty. It doesn’t matter what the diastolic is. If your systolic is over over 180, then you need to pull the fire alarm, you know, and you can go get help. If you’re if you’re diastolic, your bottom number is over. One twenty, pull the fire alarm, go get help.


[00:12:23.985] – Chris Neal

OK, and then that’s so. So when those things happen, that’s basically that’s the point where either your heart is pumping so hard that you are in danger of basically blowing a gasket. Good. You’re in danger of of of potentially an aneurysm, you know, aneurysm, stroke, you know, intracranial bleeding. Like there’s a lot of things that can happen when your diastolic is that low, when you’re not feeling there’s other other options or other problems that can happen.


[00:12:57.045] – Chris Neal

So so it’s not not good, but a good like the rough number that everybody always throws around. It’s 120 over 80. But like I said, it’s a very dynamic thing. So if you’re one twenty eight or seventy six or one thirty four, whatever, you ride a little higher. Some people do. And your primary care doctor is really the best person to contact. Follow along with that and and they can put you on some blood pressure medications.


[00:13:22.035] – Chris Neal

They’re not all bad. I don’t run from them. It’s more important that this stays stable over time because the problem with blood pressure comes when you’re running your pump too hard too long.  Like that. And that’s where the problem comes. You know, especially at risk, you know, with a pump never has a chance to just settle down. You overheat your pump. Everybody knows that. You know, it’s not that, you know, running it high every now and then, it’s necessarily bad, but you don’t want to run it too hard too long.


[00:13:52.275] – Chris Neal

So getting on getting out of low doses of medication is not a bad thing, you know.


[00:13:57.335] – Sam Ridgeway

OK, and so let’s move into I’ve got some questions coming in here, like we’ve got stuff about lisinopril is 40 milligrams of lisinopril an ideal agent while on TRT?


[00:14:08.855] – Sam Ridgeway

I guess I guess all this really matters about what your numbers are right in your health professional. I mean, if your blood pressure is one 80 over 20, it’s probably going to be a different story than if it’s 160 over 110 or something like that. So there isn’t really some magic number of of medication that’s going to get you back down. Right. It’s just like anything else. This is individualized.


[00:14:32.465] – Chris Neal

And there’s a lot of different reasons why why you can have blood pressure if you have more of if you’re in the prime of your primary care doctor is really the best person to to decipher this. You know, when they’re when they really look at you closely, they’re going to try to determine, OK, is his blood pressure issue or is it more of a problem with his heart, like it’s the pump itself, like maybe maybe the very top, maybe the coronary arteries.


[00:15:00.875] – Chris Neal

OK, so when we hear like triple bypass, double bypass. Quadruple bypass, stuff like that… So the the little arteries that are going through and supplying the heart muscle itself. You know, when they have a problem, you know, maybe that’s an issue. So it’s a it’s a heart issue. Maybe it’s it’s a matter of the heart timing. OK, so the timing itself of the heart, you know, that’s a different medication. Maybe it’s a problem with your kidneys and there’s a kidney problem.


[00:15:30.715] – Chris Neal

That’s a completely different medication. So so it’s


[00:15:35.035] – Sam Ridgeway

so there’s no magic bullet for any of this, is what you’re saying.


[00:15:38.465] – Chris Neal

You deserve a thorough work through. And then there’s a lot of different causes looking into the causes. All right.


[00:15:44.545] – Sam Ridgeway

So let’s move kind of into that, which is TRT. Does it cause high blood pressure?


[00:15:51.795] – Chris Neal

Oh, so so there’s been tons of studies, tons of studies just show, actually. And it’s the opposite proper medically managed TRT does not cause high blood pressure. What’s interesting, though, is that is that mechanically testosterone, there are testosterone receptors in your blood and your blood vessels themselves. OK, so so remember our pump in our in our rubber hose. So actually, within the rubber hose there, there are everybody’s heard, well, a lot of people had heard of nitric oxide, you know, explode if you’ve been working out.


[00:16:29.255] – Sam Ridgeway

I actually take pills that increase nitric oxide or allegedly supposed to.


[00:16:34.205] – Chris Neal

Yeah, yeah. So so nitrogen. But why do we take nitric oxide? Why do you take nitric oxide?


[00:16:40.115] – Sam Ridgeway

To increase the amount of oxygen in my blood.


[00:16:42.065] – Sam Ridgeway

Why I why I took it. I, I think it was right because I heard it was great. That’s why I take it.


[00:16:48.305] – Chris Neal

Yeah. So it’s nitric oxide gives you a pulse. Right. So what nitric oxide does there that your body’s own natural phase of dilators, it takes those tubes and it opens up the tubes. OK, so, so now all of a sudden, if we if we if we go from tubes this tight and  your heart has to squeeze through with enough pressure to build through that little tiny, tiny hole.


[00:17:13.985] – Chris Neal

That’s a lot of pressure. Now we open it up like this. Now we squeeze just like, oh, don’t squeeze it that hard anymore. So that’s a nitric oxide. Does you also get vasodilation, you know, you get a good muscle pump and everything so that that happens. The nitric oxide is activated by testosterone in the blood vessels themselves into vasculature. So testosterone is a natural blood pressure lowering agent.


[00:17:38.315] – Sam Ridgeway

Now, if you do too much testosterone, what are the things that people bring up? Are the is the high red blood red blood cell count and that causing high blood pressure? So if you don’t deal with that, you let your haematocrit hemoglobin get too high. Can that cause high blood pressure until you would give blood and reduce that the number of red blood cells?


[00:17:58.955] – Chris Neal

Absolutely. So that is when testosterone goes wrong. So so. Yeah, and that that’s that’s a very that takes a lot it takes a very long process of not doing what you’re supposed to do in order for that to happen. So so it’s important for  guys on testosterone to donate blood on a regular basis. It’s very important. It’s important also to look at your labs and in your labs, in your CBC, your complete blood count. We look at your red blood cell count, your hemoglobin, but especially your hematocrit.


[00:18:30.665] – Chris Neal

And that hematocrit is a percentage. It’s basically a percentage that tell us what percent of your blood. You know, we were take a drop of blood. What percent of it is made up of red blood cell type products. And so most guys, not on TRT , average guys are sitting around forty six, forty seven or something like that. So so on testosterone, that number will slowly, slowly, slowly start to rise and creep up. When you get to 50.


[00:18:57.305] – Chris Neal

That’s when I say, OK, you know, you’ve got to go donate blood, you know, not a fire drill, but you’ve got to go, you know, and when you get to fifty two point five, then yes,  your blood is starting to get a little thicker. So now I want you to go back and imagine again if we were to take a sponge and put it in a bucket of water, it’s going to fill up pretty quick.


[00:19:15.245] – Chris Neal

Right. So if we were to take the sponge and put it in a bucket of syrup, you know, it’s going to take a long time, you know, and then if we try and squeeze the syrup out, it’s going to take a lot more pressure, you know, and it’s because the syrup is much thicker, it’s much more dense. So if our hematocrit percentage starts to go up, then we’re going to start to have some issues.


[00:19:35.105] – Chris Neal

Fifty two point five is usually the point where guys start to feel things like fatigue and they start to slow down. You get this feeling, I don’t know if you’ve ever had that or you just feel heavy,


[00:19:45.805] – Chris Neal

I know I’ve had it.


[00:19:46.715] – Chris Neal

I’ve been up to fifty three before at the beginning when a lot of people do it ugl meds before they actually come and say maybe I should be on a supervised program. So they’re off doing their own thing. And I mean they’re taking just testosterone like huge amounts of testosterone, not doing anything about it and not doing their labs or anything. And all of a sudden, you know, you’re just feeling sluggish and you really don’t know. Then they come over and they say, OK, you learn all of these things like, OK, that in retrospect, now I understand why I was feeling those things.


[00:20:16.505] – Sam Ridgeway

So I’ve absolutely felt like that.


[00:20:18.965] – Chris Neal

Or even worse, they’ll start to feel sluggish and say, Oh man, I felt sluggish at two hundred. I must go. I must have to go up to four hundred because I’m feeling sluggish. And then every time you go up with another antibiotic, it just makes that process creep work. It makes it kick up a notch, you know, so that so when you get into the mid 50s of a haematocrit you start to get your blood pressure start going up, you start to get some fatigue, shortness of breath with exercise.


[00:20:42.605] – Chris Neal

So when your blood pressure really needs to to work harder while you’re on the treadmill or when you’re running or even just climbing a flight of stairs, I’ve had that before. And so I can get up to the top of the stairs and I’m just like out of breath, you know, and.for nothing, and and then as it gets to 60, 60 is the danger zone. That’s the danger zone of a hematocrit of 60. So that’s when you’re talking your blood is so thick, it’s turning to sludge.


[00:21:10.315] – Chris Neal

You can get blood clots. OK, so the blood can actually clot inside your brain. That causes stroke, obviously. So it can clog up the these arteries and say as a heart attack, you know, you can get blood clots in your legs and then your other blood vessels can cause all kinds of problems. So it’s dangerous.


[00:21:28.095] – Chris Neal

60 is The danger zone now,


[00:21:29.235] – Sam Ridgeway

Is it possible that you just run a little high and red blood cell count and that it really isn’t dangerous to you? That’s just how your body runs? Or is 52 always a critical stage where you want to go give blood? Have you seen anybody who just is naturally a little bit higher and it’s really not any concern to them because that’s just how they are, which I would think would be a reason why before you even start YTY or any hormone program, you get that baseline.


[00:21:53.225] – Sam Ridgeway

Of of labs, and you say, OK, here’s where I am before I do anything. And that way you can kind of gauge what your body is doing when you start.


[00:22:03.035] – Sam Ridgeway

But it is possible to have like 52 or something, and that’s just your normal bodies, the way your body operates.


[00:22:09.155] – Chris Neal

I have seen that before. It is a little bit rare, but I have seen that before now. Now, also, there are other conditions or other situations that can cause that like guys that that live in in high altitudes like Denver, there’s less oxygen in the air so that that stimulates the body to produce more red blood cells. That’s why a lot of a lot of the Olympic distance runners will move to Denver to train for six months to increase, because there is there is supposedly some short term performance boost from having a slightly, very slightly higher hematocrit level for those athletes that actually that, you know, that increasing their performance by point five percent means money in their pocket is worth it.


[00:22:55.925] – Chris Neal

You know, but but so that can have an effect. But the biggest reason why the most common reason why I see guys with higher hematocrit levels than what I would expect it or that that have to donate more often while on testosterone is because of sleep apnea. Know, that’s a big, big issue that we don’t talk about it. Well, that’s good.


[00:23:17.885] – Sam Ridgeway

Now, with the sleep apnea, what we’re talking about that if you get a C Pap machine, will that reverse or or keep that stabilized for you? Is that the solution is sleep apnea? It does, yeah.


[00:23:28.595] – Chris Neal

If you get the machine I’ve had sleep that I had it for for a number of years now. And and and once I had that, once I had the the once I had it working. Well, as long as you’re getting oxygen then then the prospect, you know, your body doesn’t really care. But so until I have the surgery I had the surgery to fix everything and and then. And then it’s fine. But so yeah. However your whatever method you’re using to control or manage your sleep apnea is working well for you.


[00:23:56.885] – Chris Neal

And some guys will have the machine on for 45 minutes, third off, but the managing sleep apnea will fix it.


[00:24:05.105] – Sam Ridgeway

Yeah, OK. And here’s a question from Robert. He says, is that high isn’t an adequate transition. So as long as you stay hydrated, well, the medical level wouldn’t be a big issue with most officers. Would you argue that just elevated hematocrit is not the main red flag as long as platelet level isn’t elevated.


[00:24:25.955] – Chris Neal

OK, so good question, the. So let me go backwards. The platelet level is complete, it is the complete level is going to be independent from your from your red blood cell hemoglobin haematocrit issue, that’s a much, much bigger concern.


[00:24:47.765] – Chris Neal

So the platelets do a completely different job and they have a they have a completely different side. They are tiny. They’re really, really tiny in comparison to the size of a red blood cell. So platelets would have a long way to go in order to thicken blood. And when it comes to your hematocrit levels, hydration does play a part in that. Like, if I were if I were to super dehydrate, it can fluctuate my levels plus or minus a bit, you know, if I come into my labs dehydrated.


[00:25:16.625] – Chris Neal

So it’s always important to come into your labs hydrated, you know, but still, the overall mechanism is what we’re after here, which is testosterone therapy will increase your your red blood cell production period, you know, and and if you if you if we all understand that and we do what we’re supposed to do on a regular basis, it’s not going to hurt us, but it will definitely keep us out of trouble. You know, I have seen I have seen guys taking on testosterone therapy and their their haematocrit never goes up above forty seven ever.


[00:25:51.095] – Chris Neal

And they don’t I don’t I believe that’s OK. But that’s the reason why we check it when we look at labs. But you know it is important to to donate them.


[00:25:57.995] – Sam Ridgeway

OK, so we have another in this feeds that are a great question here, which is how do I get a therapeutic phlebotomy because I don’t think the Red Cross takes drug users. I suppose you could put that into TRT users. And the answer with us is you have to get a therapeutic script. So if you go to the if you go to the Red Cross and you say I’m on TRT, they’re going to be like, OK, well, sorry, we can’t help you.


[00:26:18.965] – Sam Ridgeway

And what I was told, whether it’s true or not, is that the is it the solution that’s in the bag to keep the blood good doesn’t work when you have too many red blood cells, it like it can’t process all the red blood cells.


[00:26:32.555] – Sam Ridgeway

So that’s why the Red Cross said they just had to throw my blood away and I had to get a therapeutic plebotomy. So basically, you come to Viking alternative and you get yourself a therapeutic phlebotomy script. And just go ahead, Chris. Tell them what about.


[00:26:45.875] – Chris Neal

Yeah, the script is basically a piece of paper signed by a medical professional that says take this person’s blood. Do not they’re not going to put it in the donation pool, you know, for for Red Cross. But but they will draw the blood off of you, which is what’s important. And and it’s just a piece of paper to finding out from a medical perspective. And then we put conditions on there like, you know, usually what I’ll just generically is I’ll set it up so you can you can do it once a month if you like, you know, and with certain parameters, you know, don’t take the blood.


[00:27:17.695] – Chris Neal

If the hemoglobin or Hammacher, it’s too low, you know, obviously. But that’s what it’s for.


[00:27:23.765] – Sam Ridgeway

And now, Shapp, 33, says he has O blood type. And he was told he can do donate more red blood cells.


[00:27:30.545] – Sam Ridgeway

So should he do that or should he donate whole blood only?


[00:27:34.385] – Sam Ridgeway

Isn’t there a process where they can take out the red blood cells or something? Is that the double red or whatever it’s called?


[00:27:39.485] – Sam Ridgeway

I don’t know what it’s called, yeah. It’s not a good process.



They do what’s called a double red. So it’s a standard blood donation is five hundred ml’s of blood roughly. So they can do a double read where they take basically double the amount, but they take your plasma out of the blood and replace it back into your system. So it’s pretty cool. Yeah, it’s a nice thing to do. But also the problem with that, too, is that they will not let you do that for a given amount of time, much longer amount of time.


[00:28:06.725] – Chris Neal

So usually with a standard blood donation, it’s I think it’s every two months. And I think if you do a double read, I think it’s I got I don’t know exactly, but it’s more longer than two months that they want to come back and do it again. But what you never want to do if you’re on testosterone, never what you never want to do is donate platelets, just platelets. So because that’s essentially concentrating your blood, you know,.


[00:28:28.125] – Sam Ridgeway

That makes sense.


[00:28:29.495] – Sam Ridgeway

OK, plus other questions. Right? Another question comes in is, is it if you have high blood pressure, you do something about it, is there going to be permanent damage to your circulatory circulatory system or is your body resilient enough to bounce back?


[00:28:47.465] – Chris Neal

Good question.


[00:28:47.975] – Sam Ridgeway

Are you causing permanent damage or once you do it, does your body repair itself? And now everything works, right? That that’s a that’s a good question. It really depends on how long you went, how high your blood pressure is, what you’re doing and how healthy you are and what part of the body could be potentially damaged. It’s like taking your car, revving your car up to 7500 R.P.M.. Right. You know, if you do that every single time you go to the grocery store, then.


[00:29:15.165] – Chris Neal

Yeah, you know, you might think you might something, but if you do it a couple of days, a couple of times you do it, you know, in the in the garage, just get away from something. And doing that every day is OK. But it’s kind of it’s kind of like that. There’s a lot of conditions that go into that. But everything that we can do, we’re going to go into some natural treatments or natural things that you can do to help to to improve your blood pressure.


[00:29:38.385] – Chris Neal

And the body and your organs are incredibly resilient, you know, but the sooner you get a hold of things and take care of it, the better.


[00:29:46.755] – Sam Ridgeway

OK, and then what are some of the other medications that are going to increase your blood pressure that people like at Viking? We have Phénomène. We have you know, Deca, we have Arnavar are we have we have a number of different things of the medications that we would do or people in hormone replacement therapy would do.


[00:30:04.005] – Sam Ridgeway

What are some of the things that would raise your blood pressure like probably ECA stack would, I’m assuming Phentermine would.


[00:30:10.875] – Sam Ridgeway

So what are some of those things that if you have high blood pressure, you might not want to try these other solutions?



So they are going to put that in categories. OK, so so when it comes to when it comes to anabolics and then the three main anabolics  that we work with testosterone , anavar,  nandrolone decanoate, anything anabolic is going to increase your red blood cell count. OK, so so that’s that’s something to think about. OK, so that’s that, that could that could, that could work that up. So anything it’s going to increase your red blood cell count.


[00:30:48.405] – Chris Neal

You know, you you’d have to keep in your head in your mind, OK, I need just need to keep an eye on my red blood cell count.  As long as I’m donating on time and keeping that check. You’re good. You have nothing to worry about, you know, from that standpoint. So so that’s that stimulates stimulants. So the list goes on are medication, side effects, medication side stimulants like phentermine, like the ECA stack, like caffeine, like Red Bull, pre workout, like all of those things, anything to like really rev you up or jack you up.


[00:31:17.895] – Chris Neal

You know, it has more of a short term effect, but it can it can raise your blood pressure. So if you’re if you’re sensitive to those things, then it’s it’s a problem. There’s been studies on both sides actually that said caffeine in and conservative amounts is actually healthy for your blood pressure. You know, but like we were just talking about nitric oxide, which is a very common ingredient in the in the pre workouts. You know, it’s actually healthy.


[00:31:47.415] – Chris Neal

It’s good for your blood pressure, you know, but you don’t want to overdo it, is my point, just like anything. So that’s in the category of stimulants. Phentermine is the other kind of weight loss pills, you know, in the growth hormone family, the growth hormone family, really, if anything with it, it helps your heart, your blood pressure in a very subtle way. It does help in preparing micro microvascular injuries and it does help your body to regenerate blood vessels, maybe TB500, BPC157, are other peptides that help regenerate blood vessels.


[00:32:23.115] – Chris Neal

Anything that’s going to add to the plumbing mechanisms and develop that better is really going to help. So so those things are actually good. But now when it comes to any supplement, any supplement at all that has a side effect of water weight gain, you have to think about blood pressure. You have to OK, so a lot of those that I just mentioned have that side blood pressure. We’re talking about the but or water weight gain. So if you don’t keep that in check, then then that water weight, by the time we see it, by the time we like, I always look at my wedding band, you know, that’s how I that’s how I check.


[00:33:01.995] – Chris Neal

If I can’t get my wedding band off, that means, you know, I’ve either had too much salt, too much sodium in my diet, you know, and or I’m taking something that that’s it’s causing water weight gain or my ass is out of whack or something that whack know, then that water doesn’t just show up in my skin in my outer tissues. First it has to go inside and work its way from in or out. So it’s going to work its way from the from the vascular system, fill up the vascular system, and then it bleeds out of the back, into the system, into the tissues.


[00:33:34.485] – Chris Neal

So if it’s if I if it’s to the point where I see it, then that means by that means by my pump is already tank.


[00:33:41.475] – Sam Ridgeway

OK, so then that goes back into the whole thing that we had a discussion with Danny Bossa before of the EHI. Because if I don’t do anything, I, I have what I can visibly see water retention in my body. Now, whether that would work itself out in in three months or whenever, I don’t know, because I don’t let it go that long. But if you don’t do the AI, you do see the water retention within your body that has the potential to raise blood pressure, I’m assuming, because you’ve got more water in your body to push it.


[00:34:12.435] – Chris Neal

So that’s where it comes from. Yeah, but I mean, we can’t just kind of live like this and like, you know, not but yeah, it’s real. Like, this is real. The problem is not it’s not  the AI necessarily , but it’s the water. It’s like you don’t want to have those side effects. That’s issues, you know, so so estrogen. There are studies that show that estrogen is important in your mood and in your in your smooth muscle, in your blood vessels.


[00:34:42.405] – Chris Neal

So the muscles in your blood vessels to help with with relaxation and helping with your with your blood vessels, so is testosterone, actually. So there’s just as much testosterone straight. And so it helps also there too. So I’m not condoning that you’re that your estrogen level be zero. I think that’s where a lot of the misconstrues comes from.


[00:35:02.175] – Sam Ridgeway

But like crashing your aspirin just as bad as too much estrogen. Right? I mean, you don’t want to be on either end of the spectrum.


[00:35:08.835] – Chris Neal

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And the best way to tell if you’re on one end of the spectrum with the other is to look at yourself and understand your body and listen to yourself. And we open up our eyes and check and we look at labs, you know, we can’t just close our eyes to it all, say, yeah, you know, you’ve got a lot of weight gain, you’ve got blood pressure problems. It’ll be OK. You just keep on giving it.


[00:35:28.095] – Chris Neal

Can’t do that.


[00:35:29.265] – Sam Ridgeway

So are diuretics. That’s just. Is that a way to combat excess water or is that just totally the wrong way? And I ask that because Robert said any good over the counter natural diuretics to control water retention. He does say other than alcohol LOL. So but is there any any diuretic that’s probably not a good idea. A good idea what?


[00:35:51.465] – Chris Neal

So so the thing with diuretics is that diuretics go to the kidneys, obviously, and it basically forces the valves and the kidneys to open up. Right. And basically that’s what they do. And so the what’s most important is that we figure out why are we having a water weight problem in the first place? You know, and if we just if we say I don’t really care why it’s happening, let’s just open up the kidneys, give them that we can you know, if it defeats the purpose of trying to figure things out first.


[00:36:23.775] – Chris Neal

So so there are some natural there are some natural kidney cleansing and kidney health. More gentle diuretics and the fact that we have coming actually  Viking Laboratories is producing the liver, liver and kidneys cleanse, which has that evolved into the liver and chemically supplement. So that’s going to be really cool.


[00:36:49.695] – Sam Ridgeway

I’m excited just to clarify all of the stuff the Viking does not this the sales pitch, but just to let you know, which is the estrogen control men’s multivitamin, the new stuff coming out, everything in that Chris puts together, like he goes to the people that make it. He says, I want this much of this this much of this. So this is where we slap our name on somebody else’s product. This is actually Chris’s formulation on everything that Viking sells from a supplement point.


[00:37:12.835] – Sam Ridgeway

They just want to let you know that because a lot of people just say, OK, let’s just slap a name on it.


[00:37:17.815] – Sam Ridgeway

But that not the case here. OK, so last question that I have really.


[00:37:22.015] – Sam Ridgeway

We can go to whatever you want beyond that. But what are some lifestyle choices that you can do to reduce the potential of getting high blood pressure is anything we can do a way to live our life? That decreases, not guaranteed because nothing is a guarantee. But they can decrease the probability maybe that we’re going to get high blood pressure.


[00:37:40.645] – Chris Neal

Yeah, so good question. First, I want to go into it like causes real quick and then this will tie into, you know, lifestyle changes and stuff. So genetics, yes, there’s a genetic aspect to it. You know, sometimes it just happens. Weight, so the purpose of the heart is to pump blood and fluid throughout the entire body. If your body is all of a sudden twice as big as it was before, then your heart has twice as much work to do.


[00:38:04.195] – Chris Neal

Right. So, so, so maintaining your weight, maintaining a healthy weight is really important.


[00:38:10.225] – Sam Ridgeway

OK, you know, one thing, one thing on weight for we move beyond that. What I also heard is that weight is weight to your body. So whether you get beefed up to two hundred and eighty pounds of muscle or your two hundred eighty pounds of fat, I understand that one is healthier than the other. Probably, but the bottom line is your body still has to push blood through 280 pounds. So if you get super huge, some people think automatically, oh, that guy is just healthy.


[00:38:38.935] – Sam Ridgeway

But your body still having to push blood to all of that weight, regardless of whether it’s muscle or fat, correct?


[00:38:47.485] – Chris Neal

Yeah. Yeah. And yet your your heart is designed for a relative body size, for your size. Like you said, you just people have people, though they might not know this, but you’re just naturally a large person. You know, you just you just are so like all your organs are just naturally built that way. And and and I’m I’m what, 5’10”, 190 lbs


[00:39:12.685] – Chris Neal

Like I’m naturally a very small person, you know, like when I was twenty eight years old I weighed one hundred and thirty five pounds, you know. So if you had so, so, so our organs are kind of are designed that way out of kilter, you know, so, so drastic changes in that it does produce stress, you know for sure. So, so that’s the way part of your diet change problems in your diet, you know, a high sodium diet, low potassium diet.


[00:39:39.895] – Chris Neal

These are two of the electrolytes that your kidneys need in order to push things through the filter. Water doesn’t travel by itself in the body. It needs electrolytes to travel with it. So. So your diet is really important. You know, also having your blood sugar out of control, you know, can can cause blood pressure issues and and having, well, certain aspects about that, about inflammation and cholesterol issues, atherosclerosis, all of those things are really important.


[00:40:11.305] – Chris Neal

But what those what all of those aspects do, they start to decrease the flexibility on our blood vessels so that if our blood vessels are hard and they’re not flexible, it doesn’t matter how much nitric oxide yet. It’s not going it it’s not going to budge much. So so that’s that’s what that comes up with lifestyle activity. So something you can do about that is exercise, exercise, exercise. Don’t skip cardio day, don’t skip cardio. I hate cardio just as much as anybody.


[00:40:45.295] – Chris Neal

But you don’t you shouldn’t skip cardio day


[00:40:48.415] – Sam Ridgeway

Or leg day you chicken leg people out there. Don’t skip cardio day or leg day. . That’s right.


[00:40:53.005] – Chris Neal

That’s right. They work those calves. That’s right. So chronic alcohol use. So I am not the guy. I am not the guy to tell you don’t drink alcohol. That’s not my role. But but there have been some studies that show overuse of alcohol. Yes. Overuse of alcohol. It does cause problems for your blood pressure, especially by way of the liver and by way of other issues. But there have been studies, too, that I like to lean on and say, hey, you know, a certain amount of alcohol is good for you.


[00:41:22.855] – Chris Neal

So I’m going to have a glass of wine tonight. Think about how I have been healthy. So the medication side effects. A lot of people don’t realize this, but there are. A lot of allergy medications over the counter, medications that can cause significant increases in your blood pressure big time. So sinus stuff, the stuff, your sinuses, right? Oh, yes, yes. I just allergy. And then they have medications. It’s blended with all kinds of stuff in it, you know, and Sudafed.


[00:41:52.165] – Chris Neal

Yeah. Yeah. So so you have to be careful about those things and really watch that, you know. So if you’re already predisposed to blood pressure issues and it’s like allergy season, then you can really you can push yourself into a crisis. You really can’t. So sleep apnea. We talked about kidney issues. You can have independent kidney issues. We talked about that with the protein. You know, that’s that’s a big issue for us. But but, you know, managing that and maintaining healthy kidney and and hydrating, you always have to be careful, too.


[00:42:22.765] – Chris Neal

If you’re drinking, if you’re drinking, say, like water versus something like, say, like coffee. Coffee is more of a diuretic. So it’s kind of like negative water. So if you’re drinking something like that, you want to replace it or make sure that you’re getting additional water because


[00:42:39.565] – Sam Ridgeway

That’s opening  the valves on your kidneys, right.  Is that going back to what a diuretic is?.


[00:42:44.245] – Chris Neal

Yeah, it’s forcing water out and it’s forcing too much water out in some cases. So you want to keep that balance and help your body to maintain that. So other hormone issues, there are hormone imbalances that can cause hypertension. So one of them is hyperthyroidism, not hypothyroidism. But Hyper, when you have too many thyroid hormones floating around or an overdose of thyroid medications is another way that we see sometimes. So overdosing on your thyroid medication can cause blood pressure issues.  Another one is another. It’s a hormone disorder in your adrenal glands. The adrenal glands, actually,  are there their cute little glands? It kind of sits on top of your on top of your hormone, like a little a little beanie that sits on top of your kidney, you know, like that. And they produce hormones to help here. That helps with your salt production is called Aldosterone. So, yeah, those are those are the main causes.


[00:43:47.545] – Chris Neal

So when it comes to treatments with things that you can do naturally. You can decrease your sodium intake, you can increase your increase your potassium, you know, take a potassium supplement, eat a banana, eat leafy greens, you know, that’s green beans, nuts, things like avocado have a lot of potassium.


[00:44:05.795] – Sam Ridgeway

And I look at Avacados, and that’s a lot of potassium, more than a banana. I remember it being.


[00:44:11.895] – Chris Neal

Yeah, I’ve got it here. So avocado, avocados, great. But exercise, like we talk about is really important. You know, just managing your alcohol content is important. Caffeine management. We talked about that. Smoking, smoking. You know, I don’t know if there’s still a lot of people smoke out there, but the smoking what that does is that it’s it’s going to stiffen and add and reduce the flexibility of your blood vessels, you know, which is not a good thing.


[00:44:42.735] – Chris Neal

It’s going to constrict your blood vessels and then it doesn’t allow your your body the opportunity to regulate its own blood pressure anymore. So that’s probably decreasing  stress is a big one, especially this year. 2020 is freaking nut job of a year. So so taking time out to manage our stress. So so key stress is very closely related to cortisol. Cortisol is a steroid hormone. It’s in the same family as testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, DHT into the melatonin, which helps you sleep like they’re all related.


[00:45:22.215] – Chris Neal

All of this stuff is related. So if you know your your boss is killing you at work or whatever, and you can’t deal with it,   taking five minutes before you go into work and  listening to some music in the car or something and breathing, you know, some deep breathing exercises. You know, doing that multiple times throughout the day can actually help with your hormone balance and help with your blood pressure. You know, all of this all of these things go together.


[00:45:47.985] – Chris Neal

They all go together. So. So, yeah, that’s now other things, other supplement or magnesium and garlic. Those are two that I would have mentioned, magnesium and garlic extract. Those are two really good supplements are very important for your blood pressure to help lower that. Those are two components that are actually in the main multivitamin. So the Viking multivitamin, that’s important. So, OK, good. So, yeah.


[00:46:10.485] – Sam Ridgeway

So let’s just do a few questions that they have here just so we do that whole interactive thing. First of all, I want to say that we just take high blood pressure seriously because they call it the silent killer for a reason, and that’s that you might not even know that you have it if you don’t get it checked in. Quite honestly, as men, we’re notorious for not going to the doctor unless we’re on, you know, at death’s door.


[00:46:33.345] – Sam Ridgeway

So some people haven’t been to the doctor for years.They would never even know  this could be going on without. Without them actually knowing about I mean, some of the things I’ve heard, people, blood vessels in their eyes start popping and I mean blood pressure at that point, headaches and so in, and they go to the doctor and it’s just crazy out of control. So first of all, make sure that you’re getting regular checkups, especially if you get into the 40, 45 year old category.


[00:46:58.725] – Sam Ridgeway

I would do that. And then, second of all, take it seriously. Get a get a machine for 100 bucks or whatever and just check your blood pressure, you know, like maybe once a week just to see how it is so and check in at different times during the day.


[00:47:11.175] – Chris Neal

Right. Take a different time.


[00:47:12.895] – Sam Ridgeway

OK, so here, let me ask you some can donating blood cause low iron? Let’s just answer some questions that they that they’ve thrown in here.


[00:47:20.625] – Chris Neal

Yeah, so and so for guys, donating blood on a regular basis is important. So the testosterone is a it is going to ramp up your your red blood cell production and your red blood cell production is like a factory, like an assembly line. OK, so we’re looking at the end of the assembly line and at the end of the assembly line, it’s like, oh, man, we’ve got a lot of red blood cells. Holy cow. OK, iron is one of the one of the components, one of the raw materials at the very front of the line of the assembly line to make, you know, where the rubber meets the road is.


[00:47:57.495] – Chris Neal

How much how much of it how much of the assembly. I think in total, you know, and if we’re making too much, then we’re making too much, period. So so so if you if we start donating blood and donating blood and donate blood too often, you know, faster than we’re producing, you know, red blood cells, then, yes, that’s a problem. It can cause anemia, which is not enough red blood cells, you know, so focusing on one of the raw materials of red blood cells, it’s important if you have a problem and the type of problem where you’re not producing enough, you know, that’s if you’re not producing enough that we need to stop and say, OK, hold on, guys.


[00:48:39.375] – Chris Neal

Let’s let’s look at the whole assembly line and figure out where the problem is in here, because we’re not making it up, you know, and so that’s when iron is more important, so greater.


[00:48:49.395] – Sam Ridgeway

But giving blood doesn’t just automatically mean that you have does it automatically mean you have low iron?


[00:48:57.315] – Chris Neal

Is that you would have to be you’d have to be losing more blood than you are building. And then the issue of testosterone therapy is that you build more, you know, so you look good.


[00:49:09.075] – Sam Ridgeway

So, yes, let’s see, can fatty liver cause the high blood pressure and can it affect the ability to lose weight is another question. So does the liver any function in this in the scheme of things


[00:49:23.945] – Chris Neal

So the liver has less function than the kidneys do. It has less of a direct function in your blood pressure. So fatty liver by itself will will not directly cause cause blood pressure. But so but the problem is much bigger than that. So your your liver, it has a lot of really important roles.


[00:49:46.115] – Chris Neal

One of the important roles in your in your liver function is basically your liver is Grand Central Station for what your body decides to do with fat, what it wants to do. OK, so it determines whether whether fat’s going to be stubborn fat or not. You know, that happens in the liver. So all of that fat that the liver is deciding it has to go through your bloodstream. It has to go through its know. Those are in part a lot of those are your cholesterol numbers.


[00:50:14.315] – Chris Neal

A lot of that fat is just kind of set on the  inside of the liver as it’s trying to determine what to do with it. So when you look at the liver, you actually see giant pockets of fat on it or inside it. So, I mean, you can you can basically see if it’s bit like that. It’s a big clumps of that right inside there. So so when you so if your body happens to have way more fat floating around, you know, just hanging out, looking around and yeah, that’s going to be a problem for your blood pressure because, you know, it’s because that builds up in your arteries that can cause atherosclerosis.


[00:50:52.595] – Chris Neal

It can be associated with inflammation, it can cause of the problem problems and stuff like that. So, you know, and it’s just, generally speaking, not good for you globally because it directly specifically causes blood pressure issues, you know, not directly, but it doesn’t help, you know.


[00:51:07.505] – Sam Ridgeway
  1. And then one last question for we stop because we’re all within an hour. Again, it’s crazy how fast these things go. So can inflammation. I think you touched on this. Can inflammation of the body increase your blood pressure?


[00:51:19.885] – Chris Neal

Absolutely, absolutely so, but what’s interesting, too, is that if that inflammation is the process of sending water along with the immune channel, it’s usually to different to various parts of the body. So global inflammation, so an inflammatory process everywhere is going to whenever there’s inflammation. This system here. You know, the kidneys get a signal, basically the kidneys will get a signal saying, hey, our body needs more water, it needs to hold on to more water because we need to send more water out to the wrist that’s broken or something.


[00:52:01.205] – Chris Neal

Or we need to send it out here. We need to send it everywhere because we for whatever reason, we think for the body, the whole body needs to get inflamed right now. So so we have to . So an issue with issues like that. And, yes, that’s going to that’s going to increase the amount of volume in our our our volume and our tank. That’s going to increase the amount of volume in our enclosed plumbing, you know.


[00:52:27.285] – Sam Ridgeway

Mm hmm.


[00:52:28.235] – Chris Neal

And not only that, inflammation can also be associated with constricting blood vessels and stuff like that, too, you know, which is so not to mention inflammation can be harmful in the blood vessels themselves.


[00:52:39.545] – Sam Ridgeway

All right. That sounds that sounds great. So I guess with that, we just kind of wrap it up in the first of all, want to say thank you, Chris. No, what I like doing, I like these interactive sessions. Right.


[00:52:47.345] – Sam Ridgeway

You like a OK, we choose the topic and we go on it and then like on Thursdays, I think it’s good to do. And it’s like we just keep going, which means you can come to the Facebook page, to our YouTube, to the YouTube channel, and you can kind of say, this is what I’d like to see or I want you tell about your your channel. If they really want to geek out on something, where do they go to see you?


[00:53:09.815] – Chris Neal

Yeah, you go to Real Science with Chris Neil. So that’s my channel. That’s where I put up videos and I really just go into the science and really geek out to the nth degree on stuff and various aspects of health, fitness. And like last week I did what on labs? How to how do we look at labs? What should I get if I’m having this problem or that problem? You know, because that’s that it’s very important to very important aspects of that, too.



So, yeah. Real science with Chris Neal. Check it out.



Great. And then, yeah. Lastly, I mean, I just wanted to thank everybody for for coming here again. Join us on social media. That’s the easiest way to get information on what’s coming up and drop us a line and say, here’s what I think that you guys may want, a topic you might want to cover in. That’s Viking alternative medicine on Facebook. I also have Instagram, Viking lives matter a number of different channels, but I highly encourage you to join us on one of those.


[00:53:59.615] – Sam Ridgeway

So anything we come up with you, you’ll get instant notification. But anyway, thank you, Chris. Another great session. And to everybody that signed on and asked questions, I want to thank you as well. And it’s always Viking. Alternative medicine is in all 50 states, and we are a hormone replacement therapy clinic for both men and women. And our clinical supervisor here is Chris Neil. And as you can see, there’s a bunch of knowledge there.


[00:54:24.785] – Sam Ridgeway

So, you know, I encourage you to come over to Viking alternative if you’re having some issues with your existing place or if you have symptomatic issues and we can definitely help you out there. All right, Chris, thanks. Peace out.


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