Optimize Recovery Live with Sam and Chris Neal

Live Discussion about optimizing your recovery from any injury using hormones/peptides.  This is a live stream presentation that was broadcast on YouTube, Facebook, and Live Like a Viking on November 19, 2020


Transcript of Live Event – Time stamps correlate to video


[00:01:08.085] – Sam

YouTube, Facebook in multiple places. It’s all here. We’re doing our first live stream. I hope this is not just Chris and I talking and there’s more people out there. The way that you interact with us is you go to LivelikeaViking.com/chat.


[00:01:23.505] – Sam

And the reason for that is if we do these individually, then I have to check two or three Facebook pages. I have to come back and check YouTube for anybody’s comments. So I want you to switch over to live like a Viking dot com forward slash chat. And that way you can interact with us and you can ask questions as we go along, because that’s what I want to do with the session. So Chris and I started this session was to not just preach to people and tell you what we think you want to know, but to actually give you the ability to tell us what you want to know.


[00:01:55.635] – Sam

So, again, livelikeaviking.com/chat  will get you the chat window and you’ll be able to answer or put in questions that we will answer for you.


[00:02:05.835] – Sam

So the topic of today is. Optimizing Recovery, and that isn’t just in the gym that could be from chronic injury, could be from a number of different reasons why your body would have to recover. But we’re going to go with turn it over to Chris because he’s going to start this off and start us with I think the first one is maybe just an introduction, Chris. Like, who are you? And. Sure. And you have a YouTube channel.


[00:02:34.505] – Sam

Tell everybody what that channel is. Yeah.


[00:02:36.965] – Chris Neal

Yeah. So my name is Chris Neal and I am the clinical supervisor for Viking Alternative Medicine. Sam and I have been have been at this for a while now and we’re having a great time helping people with their optimization in regards to their hormones and many aspects of their life, actually. And this is my YouTube channel, Real Science with Chris Neil. So I have a tendency to geek out on a lot of that stuff.


[00:02:59.735] – Chris Neal

So if you guys are really into the science and really love that stuff, then by all means hit me up there. So, yeah, this is a very exciting topic for Sam and I both because we get this a lot. It’s one thing to be able to optimize yourself, push yourself, obviously, but, you know, to to be able to make it the long haul. And that that means as far as working out, meeting your goals, living your life to the fullest, if you get injured for all of you guys out there.


[00:03:28.235] – Chris Neal

And I know I have I know Sam has been injured before. We’ve been down and out before. Oh, you know, when it comes to different aspects, that sucks all the wind out of your sails big time. So what can we do to help our bodies recover? Sam and I were talking about this earlier that that really you don’t build in the gym. You build after the gym. When you’re recovering in the gym, you’re just tearing down, stimulating your body.


[00:03:51.875] – Chris Neal

But then it’s the recovery that that really allows you to to to make to make gains and make progress, you know, so so we get this all the time. What can we do for recovery? What can do for recovery? So we just wanted to start this off with our Live stream with recovery. So. Yeah, yeah.


[00:04:10.725] – Sam

SO let’s talk about first some of the things that we can do, I think one of the things that you value in that toolbox of recovery is Deca. Deca is one of the problems.


[00:04:19.935] – Chris Neal

Yes. Yes.


[00:04:21.105] – Sam

So maybe you can explain a little because a lot of people think Deca, they think steroids. Right. They go into the whole, you know, bodybuilder type thing. Oh, they got to use Deca. And I think they misrepresent that as a as what I would call a bodybuilder dose versus a therapeutic dose.


[00:04:38.505] – Sam

So, yeah, with that, what can you expect to have that happen? How can it help you? How can it assist in this recovery process?


[00:04:46.965] – Chris Neal

Yeah, definitely. So Nandrolone decanoate is the full term. Full name of the deca is a fascinating hormone. It is a synthetic version. It’s a synthetic type of steroid hormone. So it has been it has been used. Yes. Obviously, you know, when we think about like, you know, bodybuilders has been and we do not support the abuse of steroids or so I can put that out there. We do not support that whatsoever.


[00:05:14.535] – Chris Neal

But it does have very strong medical use. It’s actually been used in orthopedic settings in America and all over the world for  decades, decades now. I mean, they were using they were giving deca injections to little old ladies with arthritis, you know, and because it works very, very well and and it helps with something in particular is special about Deca is that, as a cousin to testosterone, Deca is an anabolic so it does help your body or get your body in the mood to build, but specifically in the way of collagen.


[00:05:48.135] – Chris Neal

So collagen is very, very important. If you think about like if you think about, you know, all of the injuries that you’ve had in the past, you know, the majority of them really, they’re not so much muscular injuries. They’re typically tendons, your ligaments, ACL, you know, your rotator cuff.


[00:06:04.965] – Chris Neal

Those are tendons and ligaments. So the the smooth lining over your joints that, you know, that causes the bone on bone grinding, you know, at once.


[00:06:12.855] – Chris Neal

It wears down all of those aspects to your body that really slow us down big time as we age and stay active. All of those are made out of collegen. And so collagen is what they’re made of. Testosterone is a great muscle anabolic but Deca comes in as the college  anabolic, so it helps your body to build and replace collagen for all of those parts. And it’s really what we you know, what really helps to keep us going, keep this keeps us on the road.


[00:06:38.715] – Sam

So it’s great that you’re not just taking it. And not a lot of people think with deca, you just don’t feel the pain. But it’s still there. But what you’re saying is that Deca can actually come in and start repairing some of that damage. And that’s why you start feeling better, not because it’s just numbing you to where you are doing injuries to yourself you’re not even aware of?


[00:07:00.135] – Chris Neal

Exactly. Yeah. So so that’s the thing. This is why it’s so important to geek out into and really dig into the mechanics as to what these tools actually do. You know, so so if you take a medication like, say, ibuprofen, for instance, ibuprofen, all it really does, it decreases inflammation. That’s all it does. It has nothing to do with repairing anything but decreasing your inflammation that does directly. So when it comes to, say, Deca, Deca doesn’t do it, doesn’t care about your pain, it doesn’t care about anything else.


[00:07:28.425] – Chris Neal

But it’s going to rebuild what’s actually broken, which is in many cases, collagen. And it’s and that’s and it’s encouraging your body to use that collagen to start to start repairing your rotator cuff, you know, repairing and and rebuilding the smooth lining on your joints. You know, so many, many different aspects. Tennis elbow. We were talking about tennis elbow earlier today. You know, big time collagen issue. You know, a lot of our aches and pains are due to as we get older, you know, everybody says, you know what, I’m now that I’m older, I can’t recover as well.


[00:08:02.835] – Chris Neal

You know, I’m having this pain, aches and pains here and there, back issues, you know, tightness, stiffness, collagen is where a lot of that comes from. So.


[00:08:10.185] – Chris Neal

So can you Chris, can you do this preventably? Is it good to do preventably prior to something happening? Or do you are you supposed to wait until something happens before you implement Deca? Because most people don’t think about it until they’ve got their snap, crackle and pop in or something turning hurting them like, oh, my gosh, I might look at Deca, but this could be something that you just used preventively to make sure that everything’s collagen, staying there in the right amounts.


[00:08:35.655] – Sam

So you’re not going to get that injury to begin with.


[00:08:38.895] – Chris Neal

Absolutely. So one of the one of the most beautiful things from my standpoint I really like about Decha is that it’s very, very, very safe. As long as you understand how it works and you keep the dose conservative into it, into a medical and you’re managed medically, you know, you’re not trying to go into abuse of the medication. That’s where Decca gets all of the the bad name of the, you know, water weight gain and the erectile dysfunction Deca Dick is what they call it.


[00:09:04.965] – Chris Neal

And that’s that’s by going too high into the dosage.  If you keep it at a conservative dosage. It’s very, very safe. It doesn’t hit the kidneys, doesn’t hit the liver, it really has very, very little, if any, effect at all to your estrogen balance and all that kind of stuff. So it’s nice you can run it in the background, you know, long term and have no issues at all, because mechanically all it’s doing, it’s in many ways very much like your testosterone.


[00:09:30.015] – Chris Neal

You want to maintain your testosterone levels, to keep your muscles and keep your muscular development, you know, in many other things. But but Deca does its part, you know, by maintaining your collagen throughout your life. So I even tell I even go so far as to say, hey, if you’re a guy and you’re already on testosterone and you want to live an active physical lifestyle and continue to do that, then think about all of the all of the roadblocks that are going to come throughout your life.


[00:09:59.175] – Chris Neal

It’s going to be injury, injury, injury, you know, so staying on on a on a dosage a conservative dose of Deca, it’s easy. It’s really inexpensive. It’s oil based. So you can mix it in with your testosterone. So it’s very easy to do. So I like it. I’m a big fan


[00:10:16.275] – Sam

Chris. We got some questions coming through here already. So for those of you just joining us if you want to if you want to give us a question, we want interaction here. So if you want to send us questions, it’s livelikeaviking.com/chat and that consolidates all of your questions where I can see them on the screen and I can throw them over to Chris so he can get them answered.


[00:10:33.125] – Sam

So the first. So the first question that I have is a message asking, how does the side effect of Deca, you know, what affect your sexual function while on testosterone? So how does that how does that thing go with maybe with prolactin and stuff? Why do you get. Yeah.


[00:10:52.495] – Chris Neal

Yeah. So OK, so we already know that that testosterone has has an aromatization. It will it, it converts, it can convert into estrogen and estrogen has its own source of problems. You know, that’s just a part of the test, the steroids. So Deca is considered a 19 nor it’s a different type of of of steroid.


[00:11:18.715] – Chris Neal

So it has its own conversion and it can it can convert or aromatize into, not really aromatize, but it does convert into another another steroid called prolactin. So I’ll put that up here. So if if you’re pushing too much, Deca, then you can can get prolactin. Prolactin is a hormone that in men well, men especially. It’s a hormone that’s supposed to sit very low and very quiet your entire life. It’s usually somewhere around the range on labs, you know, between like five and 12 or so.


[00:11:50.725] – Chris Neal

And it really doesn’t do a whole lot. But if that number goes up because you’re taking certain types of medications, you know, a head injury can cause it. Overdosing on Deca can absolutely cause it.


[00:12:01.885] – Chris Neal

You know, that pushes the conversion over into prolactin and that causes a problem, you know, so that’s where that comes from. Absolutely. Absolutely. Prolactin. It can also even cause a gyno and and a bunch of really other bad things. So we don’t we don’t push on it too much as far as the dosage for that reason.


[00:12:17.755] – Chris Neal

And if it is a problem, you know, and we see that in labs, there’s an easy way to fix that. So we know how to do that, too, you know, so we have our consultation. We look at the labs and there’s there are  prolactin blockers that you can take, you know, to prevent that from happening.


[00:12:32.895] – Sam

OK, called burgling. OK, so we take caber if we if we have that proactive build up, that keeps it down. Another question is, how long do you typically have to take that? Because a lot of people think that on a therapeutic dose that you’re going to have to cycle this. Right. So and I’m pretty sure that’s not the case if you’re on a therapeutic dose. But explain that a little further. How long can you take it?


[00:12:55.995] – Sam

And is it harmful if you continue to take it?


[00:12:59.715] – Chris Neal

So a lot of people, when they when they talk about steroids, they just assume that you have to cycle it because that’s what bodybuilders talk about all the time. If you’re on a safe dose and your body likes it and your body does OK with it, it’s not it’s not damaging you in any way. There’s no reason to cycle. The only purpose of cycling is to get off of something because it’s so harmful to you over a certain amount of time.We do have certain medications that we do that with, but DECA is not one of them. As long as you keep it at at at a at the appropriate dose, you’re going to stay on it, you know. So it’s and it works very well.



OK, and another question is, I was in a motorcycle accident September 5th and broke six bones, ankle toes, both feet.. Still recovering, doing therapy. Is there anything I can take to help speed recovery and help with joint pain? And we get this a lot where people like you would come up to a certain point where you would say these things can only help so much if you just totally obliterate your your rotator cuff, maybe throw a little back at it isn’t going to do anything. There’s a certain point at which Deca can work and other points at which it’s just too far gone.


[00:14:04.155] – Sam

You’re going to need surgery. You’re going to need other types of help. So with this guy who has all these broken bones and everything, what is it that he could do from a recovery standpoint to help with joint pain?


[00:14:15.165] – Chris Neal

So he that’s that’s a that’s there’s a lot there’s a lot there. So if if I were to say let’s say, what can we do to throw the kitchen sink at him, you know, we’re really we’re really to put everything into it.


[00:14:26.955] – Chris Neal

This is kind of split into two parts. The first part and we haven’t gotten into this yet, but the first part is there’s things that I can do as a provider, medically speaking, you know, medication supplements that we can provide to encourage your body to really want to heal this as much as it can possibly be healed, you know, without going in surgery and things like that. And then there’s there’s things that he’s going to have to do.


[00:14:49.245] – Chris Neal

OK, so and that’s you know, there are and we work together. We work together at this so that, you know, proper nutrition, obviously, you know, getting in enough protein. He needs to essentially be on some version of borderline workout diet, you know, because his body has a lot of recovery and rebuilding to do so he needs to   make sure that he is he’s not nutritionally deficient in any case, you know, fats, carbs, protein, you know, obviously getting enough sleep.


[00:15:18.615] – Chris Neal

You know, those are all all of those things, you know, trying to minimize stress as much as possible. So all of those things are things that he can do. So from a from a medicinal standpoint, TRT obviously is is the foundation. You know, your your testosterone sets the mood. Getting your body in anabolic state in general is huge. I can’t tell you how many people I see that have had major medical issues, major accidents, a lot of broken bones.


[00:15:43.485] – Chris Neal

They go under anesthesia and that just wipes out their hormone balance, you know, completely to the point where their body doesn’t really care anymore, you know, and about recovery or anything. So so we have to reset that as a foundation first. After that, the next step, I would say, would be definitely Deca. It’s very easy and it’s and and it’s going to increase his college. And so in all of those injuries that all of the bones that he mentioned, he didn’t just break bones, he broke bones, yeah, but but he also has a lot of soft tissue injuries. Those bones are connected to ligaments and tendons, and they’re very, very important for that collagen to be a part of that recovery, too, with Decha. So second one, the next round would be something from the growth hormone family. OK, so we’re going to talk about that a little bit more, but but the growth hormone family is huge, huge. So growth hormone is something that is naturally in us already.


[00:16:38.465] – Chris Neal

And it does depreciate as we age, you know, and everybody knows that. You know, that’s one of the reasons why we look at a young person, say, oh, well, you’re getting better quick because you’re young.


[00:16:47.765] – Chris Neal

And here I am. I’m still suffering with this thing I’ve had for four months, you know, so and that growth hormone level there really isn’t a great way to to see your growth hormone level in labs.


[00:17:00.005] – Chris Neal

IGF one is is probably the closest thing we’ve got to checking that out. But if he’s already gone through this much, you know, I bet I bet you a dollar that is IGF one level is low.


[00:17:11.285] – Chris Neal

So there’s many, many different members of the growth hormone family. There’s a lot of different ways to crack that one, you know, but that’s that’s huge. That’s getting your body in the mood to recover and do many, many things all at once.


[00:17:23.375] – Chris Neal

So other factors that are that that would be key would be these two. TB 500. Is another peptide and BPC 157. These are very, very interesting, very misunderstood or poorly understood peptides right here. So the reason why these two are so cool is because they’re incredibly safe. They’re incredibly safe. They’re peptides are very small, relatively small peptides, actually, thymosin beta. So this is a this is a synthetic version of something produced from the thymus gland.


[00:18:01.575] – Chris Neal

And what it does actually with both of these, do they really help increase the vascularity.  OK, so one of the number one reason why bones do not heal, we call that a non-union in orthopedics, I practiced orthopedic surgery for five years. We call that a non-union. The number one reason why people develop a non-union or their bones don’t heal to that strong, dense bone again is vascular vascularity. Their body is not able to regenerate new blood vessels into that space.


[00:18:30.885] – Chris Neal

And that’s important. It’s vital for any type of healing, any type of healing at all. So TB 500 is cool because it’s the synthetic version of a of a natural peptide in your body that is produced at the site of an injury. The body naturally already produces it, you know, and it sends an information it sends a signal to the cells to start building protein, especially acting, build protein, start, start, start restructuring, but basically getting the getting the construction workers going, you know.


[00:19:03.105] – Chris Neal

And so by injecting this, it’s systemic. It works through your entire body. So by injecting this right here, it allows your body to really get into construction mode. So it’s pretty cool.


[00:19:16.365] – Sam

BPC 157, your question here should be 500. Could it be used preventative letters to five hundred only to be used when you have an injury and you need those cells to start repairing things? Is it useful when you’re not hurting and needing some of the repair?


[00:19:33.335] – Chris Neal

So the TB500 I that that is not been well studied, it’s a great question. I don’t think it has to be it doesn’t it doesn’t have to be cycled because if you take too much of it, something bad will happen. So for that reason.


[00:19:51.155] – Chris Neal

So but because this is this is a signal that’s naturally produced in the body at the time of an injury, I would I would postulate or I would believe that that maintaining high levels of that in your body at all times would not be a good thing, because there are there are tons of negative feedback factors that we don’t even understand it. We haven’t even hit yet. So. So I would say no to this one. To this one, BPC 157.



Yes. You know, you could take this in long term. Long term. There have been some studies that show that this would actually it does the same thing, increase your vascularity from a different source, from different route. But it also does other things decreases depression, you know, increases or decreases your inflammation, you know, and and just day to day things increases your flexibility and stuff like that, you know, in addition to healing and recovery.


[00:20:38.285] – Chris Neal

So throwing the kitchen sink at it would be one, two, three, four, like all of those things, you know.


[00:20:43.985] – Sam

Good. So here’s another question comes in. How long if this were still in the Deca subject, how long after taking Deca do the benefits start kicking in? Because a lot of people have the understanding that Deca is going to take a little bit before it actually starts, before you start feeling those joints start yo lubricate, you know,  everybody’s different. But, you know, an approximate time, you should wait.


[00:21:04.475] – Chris Neal

Yeah. So that’s a that is that’s a little bit of a tough one. It depends on how bad the injury is that we’re trying to get to feel better, you know, and how far we have to go. But the first thing I would say is that Deca in general is slower in action than testosterone in its activity. So most people at a standard dosage of Nandrolone decanoate, most people start to notice some benefit. They start to see the tide shifting a little bit at about three weeks, you know, usually about three weeks.


[00:21:35.555] – Sam

And  another question coming in still on deca, does Deca work for women or is Deca something women just do not need at all?


[00:21:44.105] – Chris Neal

Yes, actually, Deca does work for women. It is a it is a great – same benefits. And it works really well for women. Obviously, it has to be at a lower dose, you know, but it’s it’s actually very safe, much less virilization and Virilization type symptoms, side effects, you know, like unlike testosterone.


[00:22:08.915] – Sam

So are there any sexual dysfunction with women, like, decrease in libido or anything, or is that just totally a man thing?


[00:22:16.565] – Chris Neal

That’s that’s a man thing because of the dosage. So that’s that would be incredibly rare with women. Women can tolerate prolactin a lot better than men can fluctuations and prolactin. Prolactin is a hormone that primarily in women help with breastfeeding, you know, lactation. So so women can tolerate that in there.


[00:22:34.085] – Chris Neal

And they do they do much better with it than men.


[00:22:36.455] – Sam

OK, sounds good. Well, let’s stop getting off of that. I guess moving to the next one because we only have certain amount of time. We could probably do this going into IGF 1. What as far as increasing IGF 1, what are some of those? I know we’ve touched on a little bit, but what are some of the properties that you want to look, even if you’re not trying to recover from broken bones and so on, just from a normal standpoint of recovery from maybe a gym workout or something?


[00:23:01.235] – Chris Neal

How can I be using IGF 1 help you do that recovery? Who so IGF one is is is very poorly understood. The best way I can describe growth hormone, the whole picture and everything is kind of like this.


[00:23:15.725] – Chris Neal

Have you ever seen those pictures of or have you ever seen a video of the guys that set up dominos and they they set them up in a row and they have this beautiful picture of what the domino once they all fall down with that, what happens? So they always start out in a straight line. Right. The domino, there’s always like five or six domino straight and then they start dividing and doing a bunch of things. OK, so if we were to pick up domino number five in the row, that’s in the brain, in the brain, it’s pretty much a straight line.


[00:23:45.095] – Chris Neal

So if we pick up domino number five and look at it, it would say HGH or human growth hormone, HGH 191, 191 amino acids put it out.


[00:23:54.695] – Chris Neal

But it’s just a domino. Like what we’re after is the whole picture.


[00:23:58.025] – Chris Neal

You know, we’re after the recovery sleep, skin, hair, nails, you know, being able to heal from injury faster, you know, increase the metabolic efficiency. So keep trying to keep lean, you know, digestive support. You know, there’s all the all that’s the beautiful picture that we’re looking at on the end.



HGH is just it is just a domino. If we were to look at that domino number five, if we look at domino number four and pick it up and look at it, it would say growth hormone releasing hormone, which is Sermorelin . That’s synthetic Sermorelin . And it’s. The same thing, the body doesn’t care, it’s just another domino, you know, so so as long as we knock over the dominoes, it doesn’t matter. If we knock over four or five, we’re going to get the whole picture.


[00:24:42.295] – Chris Neal

OK, so now that that also goes in the way of for like CJT 1295  is another one.


[00:24:49.535] – Chris Neal

So other other factors are members of the growth hormone family, their kind of their cousins, the growth hormone family, MK 677, Ipamorelin. And those are two really common ones, the great hormones to date. They also will knock over, know domino number five and take out the whole picture. But they also do some other things, too, you know, in addition to that. So it’s it’s a fascinating picture and network of all kinds of things that are happening all at once.


[00:25:15.455] – Chris Neal

So it’s a great bang for the buck for doing a lot of stuff, you know, and it’s also very, very safe. As long as you keep as long you’re not abusing it, you keep it at a at a conservative dose like these medications can be wonderful and really, really help people out a lot.


[00:25:30.695] – Sam

So you need to cycle these IGF one enhancers or can you just continue to take them seven days a week so people say you’re supposed to take the weekends off to reset receptors. And so what’s the truth to how often you’re supposed to take? You could take these things.



So all of these medications, except for mk677, that’s going to kind of go to the side. But all of these medications, you do not have to cycle them. You know, you do not have to say. And it’s because the half life of these medications is very quick. Actual HGH, that the half life of that medication, once it gets into your body and you inject it is between usually between 18 and twenty six minutes.


[00:26:10.955] – Chris Neal

You know, it does it doesn’t last long. It goes in and knocks over the it knocks over the domino and it’s done. Its job is done, you know. So there’s not enough time for your body to build up negative feedback and all kinds of it’s different than testosterone. Testosterone hangs around in your body a long time and there’s checks and balances to keep the levels right. But eighteen minutes and you don’t have time for all that. So so we don’t have that issue.


[00:26:33.965] – Sam

So how does food affect how you take something that would increase IGF one? Do you want to have a period of fasting prior to do you want to have a period of fasting afterwards because you have such a short window for it to work? What’s the optimal climate for it to work in your body from like a nutrition standpoint? You feeding it or not? Yeah, yeah.


[00:26:56.135] – Chris Neal

That’s that’s a good question. So so when it comes to injecting pretty much a lot of peptides, but but specifically  Sermorelin, growth hormone, Ipamorelin and CJT1295, you want to try and inject them when you’re relatively fasted  or when you haven’t eaten much, when you don’t have, when, when your blood sugar that are relatively at its lowest. And the reason behind that is because they are carried by our what I call our UPS trucks, they’re carried by our insulin.


[00:27:27.755] – Chris Neal

OK, so if your insulin is if your UPS trucks are full of sugar because just a big piece of chocolate cake, then they’re full, they’re full of sugar. So you’re you’re small and is just going to be hanging around waiting for a UPS truck to empty. And in the meantime, it’s dying because it only has you know, it only has like 15 to 16 minutes, you know, so so so we want to try and take those, you know, typically in the evening, it’s not a make it or break it, but you want to try and take it in the evening on an empty stomach if you can, and and then let it go in and do its thing.


[00:27:58.445] – Sam

OK, somebody else asked, what’s your take on IGF, LR3. So yeah.


[00:28:05.345] – Chris Neal

So so when it comes to OK, the best way I can describe that is in a picture so. So we have the brain, right, and the brain, these are there these are our. Ah, dominoes. OK, so by the time the by the time the signal actually gets over to the liver. OK, these dominoes are in a straight line here. OK, so by the time we get to the liver, the liver is actually what what develops.


[00:28:37.885] – Chris Neal

You know, your IGF, that’s where IGF comes from, you know, but it’s based on a signal or one of one of the previous dominoes knock over your IGF. So that’s where it is. Is that right? So in this so there’s all kinds of things that happen. Here, here, here, the all kinds of things are happening way before it even gets to IGF. OK, and then once IGF comes out, you know, and there’s different growth factors and stuff, but once you’re once you’re IGF is produced and you’re different factors are up in that IGF goes and does a bunch of things, too, you know.


[00:29:12.325] – Chris Neal

So so, you know, would you which would you rather have would you rather knock over this one? Would you rather boost this and just get this stuff or would you rather boost this right in here and get all of this and all of this, you know, so you’re missing out on a lot of the picture if you’re just injecting IGF.


[00:29:35.935] – Sam

So LR3 three comes  into that how?


[00:29:39.715] – Chris Neal

So that’s like that’s that’s like a it’s still it’s still attached. It’s still like that. That kind of extends the length of it or extends it sends the life on it, but it’s still not going to you’re still missing out on a big part of the picture.


[00:29:54.225] – Sam

OK, and are peptides, there’s a whole controversy, peptides being injected, even, you know, like these, like what we’re talking about here IM or subcutaneously Some people while you have a camp that says subcutaneously and can you mix those with, like your testosterone”  People ask  that all the all the time like about what might I want to do?


[00:30:16.125] – Sam

One shot, not two. So first of all, are the adjudge I am or subcu is, which is the best delivery method. And second, is it possible to mix an oil based with a with a water based.


[00:30:27.875] – Chris Neal

So the can you do all of those things? Yes, you can, should you? Are you going to get the most out of it? No, you’re not. The the subcu subcu for peptides has been studied the most.


[00:30:45.365] – Chris Neal

It’s been tried and true the most. That’s how we determine our what we call pharmacokinetics, how we know how fast the medication is moving and traveling in your system. You know, so so all of that all of that has been done through through through a lot of trial and error. So so subcu is definitely I think it’s it’s it’s it’s the best version for your for your injectables, you know, for for peptides. And it was the second question again.


[00:31:20.245] – Sam

How? First of all, where do you inject them?


[00:31:22.735] – Chris Neal

Subcu I think sulcus the best? Yeah, OK.


[00:31:28.825] – Sam

And then let’s see. I know we’re kind of. Oh, can you I’m sorry.


[00:31:32.245] – Chris Neal

Can you mix it. Can you mix it with. That’s all right. Oh yeah. Oil and water no. You don’t want to because mostly because you’re peptides are your parents are very delicate in water form so you don’t want to do anything to upset that balance.


[00:31:45.235] – Chris Neal

And then typically for guys, you’re supposed to be injecting your chest most guys anyway. I do. I do have some patients and I encourage them to do subcu, but the vast majority of guys are going to be injecting their testosterone intramuscular anyway. So it’s going in a different location.


[00:31:58.435] – Chris Neal

And, you know, it’s really not worth messing up your your peptides that are very delicate. So by mixing it with an oil base.


[00:32:08.185] – Sam

OK, and one last question about Deca came in. What’s a safe protocol for Deca?  Like what would you typically the range that you might prescribe to someone for a therapeutic dose of Deca.


[00:32:20.785] – Chris Neal

So for Deca, what I usually do, I like to start guys off on. 0.3 cc’s  two times a week. So, all right, that would actually be 60 milligrams. 60 milligrams or 120 a week in total. Yeah.


[00:32:45.225] – Sam

OK, and then as you do that, what would be a reason to up that? Like what? You weren’t feeling the effects after a certain period of time? Or why would you go to what’s the ceiling that you go to therapeutically?


[00:32:57.285] – Sam

What’s too much? What is outside of the bounds of therapeutic?


[00:33:01.005] – Chris Neal

So I found I initially when I started practicing in hormone therapy, I would just do the standard dose of 200 milligrams starting dose of Deca. And I found over time that about 75 to 80 percent of guys were having issues with that. You know, they were having some side effects, you know. And so when I dropped down to the 120 milligrams as a protocol, you know, then things got a lot better. You know, the so so that the you know, there are many other factors that also depend on that.



Your SHVG is affected by that and some other things to so or can can impact how high your deca feels in your body. So so there are times when I decrease the dosage for that and, you know, increasing the dose. I mean, it’s so slow that you would have to be on Deca for a while to first feel the difference. So it’s not something you want to rush into increasing. You know, you if you if you take it for three weeks, four weeks and you’re like, oh, it’s not working, you know, I got to go up.


[00:34:02.625] – Chris Neal

No, no, no, no. That’s not the one you want to play with, you know. Yeah.


[00:34:07.125] – Sam

And is there a certain age to where you would get there? You shouldn’t be using Deca or could Deca could be used at all ages or is they’re too young to use. Deca what what kind of. Because one of our guys, Robert Russell Shepard, who is an amazing being, 67 years. Oh, yeah. Russell at 67 years old and taking Decha. Is there a limit where you you know, you really don’t want to use it anymore because something in your body isn’t going to take it in?


[00:34:34.005] – Chris Neal

Like, you know, Decha is very, very safe.


[00:34:37.485] – Chris Neal

It is very, very safe. Structurally, it is different than testosterone, but very close, you know, so so your body handles it very, very well. So now there’s there’s really no top end age, you know, that that it can be given. Actually, like I was saying before, in orthopedic clinics all over the country and actually before prior to Jose Canseco showing my age, prior to Jose Canseco, like, you know, the Deca was was injected to, you know, to, you know, little old ladies and orthopedic surgeons offices all the time, you know, as a as a typical steroid injection, you know, to protect against arthritis, to help rebuild collagen and things like that.


[00:35:14.295] – Chris Neal

So it’s perfectly safe. Yeah. The youngest age, you know, we only work with patients, you know. Twenty one and older. So, you know, you know, if you’re if there’s a if there’s a collagen deficiency or if you’re having issues with recovery, it’s still very, very safe. And that’s one of the reasons why I like it so much.


[00:35:30.485] – Sam

OK, and, you know, this has kind of turned in from recovery optimization into ask Chris the whole bunch of questions, which is great because we’ve got people coming through like we’re never going to get to all of these.


[00:35:41.285] – Sam

But even though we came in for this purpose, I just I like answering questions that people want to know the answers to. And some of the stuff I said, we have common questions that people want. So what is there anything else that can lower Prolactin while on deca to stop the problem that we were talking about? One of the questions was B6.  Can that be used in – is there any. I mean, is there anything else other than Caber that’s going to help you keep that prolactin down naturally, I suppose?


[00:36:10.495] – Chris Neal

Well, prolactin is not prolactin. It’s not something that you want to be too high and you certainly don’t want it to be too low either, you know, so so you don’t just want to blindly try and keep your prolactin down. You know, a lot of people think, oh, if I take Deca, I have to take caber. That’s not that you don’t want to just walk into caber, you know, blindly. You know, you should take that if your levels on labs are too high and too high. A lot of times. I mean, I have I’ve seen guys that have pretty bad symptoms that have prolactin level of 16 or 17. You know, like I said, normal levels are between five and 12 usually, you know, so so. Yeah, you know, and the symptoms are just as bad if you’re if you’re forcing your prolactin too low by going into like four, three, you know. So B6 is not really that effective at blocking this cascade right here. There really is. And there really isn’t anything additional that’s maybe some herb’s out there, but there’s very little that’s out there besides caber that’ll really help that.


[00:37:13.425] – Sam

OK, and another great question is because everybody wants to lose weight. That’s, you know, 99 percent of it mine. I don’t lose weight because the question is, what is the number one hormone that gives the best bang for the buck for fat loss? Now, obviously, nutrition people can’t take that out of the picture. You have to eat right.  You can’t eat Big Macs, take something and expect that’s going to do anything. But if you’re following things and you want to have something that would assist with your weight loss, is there anything out there in the hormone, in the peptide, any of these things that really can make an impact to help you lose more weight if you’re trying to do the right things already give you that extra edge?


[00:37:53.755] – Chris Neal

That that’s a loaded question. And we might have to save that one for another event.


[00:37:57.625] – Sam

A whole. That’s a whole topic. Yeah. Weight loss topic.


[00:38:00.985] – Chris Neal

That’s a good topic. Yeah. But the one I would have to say if I had to pick only one in your TRT  aside to your hormone like that. That one would definitely be number one. But with that one aside, I would say I would say Sermorelin would probably be the best bang for the buck only because because of one factor, because it does so many different things.


[00:38:28.075] – Chris Neal

And in order to lose weight, you have to have so many different things happening all at once. You have to sleep or you can’t lose weight. You know, Sermorelin helps with that. You know, you have to your metabolism has to be running on point Sermorelin helps with that. You know, you have to work out. And if you’re not recovering from your workouts and you got to take four days off because you’re you’re hurting yourself, you know, then you’re not going to be able to lose weight, Sermorelin helps with that, you know what I mean?


[00:38:56.935] – Chris Neal

So like all of these, you know, so I would say that one is the biggest bang for the buck. I wouldn’t call it a fat burner. You know, it’s not you know, it’s nothing is going to be magic, but this one’s going to check the most boxes, OK? You know, if you’re looking to lose weight, naturally in a healthy way.


[00:39:14.315] – Sam

All right. One of the questions came in. This is, do you prescribe caber at your clinic that the answer is yes, if if you want.


[00:39:24.645] – Sam

There has to be a reason for it, yeah, um, so I will see another one is does a one inch pin for an eye, an injection actually work or is a long and shallow, you know, insulin needle or the or the one inch, one inch needle, I guess for the IM syringe. Is that good enough. One and a half. Is that going to matter because a lot of times we have people that might be a little bit overweight and one of their questions is going between like vikro dosing like I do or going to the IM syringe.


[00:39:57.375] – Sam

And part of the problem where they want to inject is that you have various levels of fat. Now does that have to get through the fat layer and get into the muscle for testosterone. I know you can subcu testosterone, but that doesn’t really seem to be the most effective method. Or can you use a one inch pen, get into the muscle all the time?


[00:40:15.225] – Sam

Is that or even a half? Where do you go? It even is a half inch pin. Can it get in there? And how do you know that it’s in there.


[00:40:22.345] – Chris Neal

Yeah. So, so so many people get they, they get tied up into the size of the needle and they open up the needle. Oh my God. You know, it’s this long I have to take put this much of the needle into me. You know, you don’t have to bury the needle. All right. So what’s this is how to figure it out.  I want everybody here to do this, a little experiment. I want you to pinch an area of your body.


[00:40:41.895] – Chris Neal

So, like, pinch maybe your deltoid, OK? You can pinch and pull up on skin and subcutaneous tissue only. If you really feel you can’t pensione pull up on muscle. It doesn’t move like that. Right. OK, now if you pinch it your belly, you might be able to pinch a little more. You can pinch and pull up a little more. You know, you can panch and get a good pinch there.


[00:41:06.765] – Chris Neal

So that’s that that space, that that amount that you’re lifting and pulling, that is subcutaneous tissue. OK, so the part that you cannot pinch, that is muscle. All right. So if you pinch here,  you can you can estimate. How much how much depth do you think that is between your skin and your muscle and your deltoid right there?


[00:41:24.495] – Sam

That’s not a lot of an inch top.


[00:41:27.475] – Chris Neal

Yeah, right. Maybe a quarter of an inch. So that’s how far you need to go until you get into the muscle. Once you’re in the muscle, you’re in the muscle. You know, it doesn’t you don’t have to use a full inch.  And so so that would be the best way I would say that you can determine that, OK.


[00:41:43.325] – Sam

And let’s see. Yeah, someone is asking for a fat law session for us to have a fat loss session, like how to optimize that? Oh, yeah, we know that’s a that’s a big one. Yes.


[00:41:53.355] – Chris Neal

So why don’t we just touched on one more thing and then we can like we could do this like next Thursday, whatever you want. And I like it. Let’s ask Chris questions and find out it kind of go from there. That’s that’s good.


[00:42:06.005] – Chris Neal

Next Thursday is Thanksgiving, isn’t it?


[00:42:08.405] – Sam

Oh, OK. I’m probably going to do then. OK, so some other time is coming up soon. Let’s just let’s just do the last thing is touching on sleep because I don’t think people sleep, maybe sleep in water and how those two things affect recovery as well, because I don’t think people put enough I put enough value into sleep or staying hydrated.


[00:42:28.225] – Chris Neal

Yes. So those two factors are very, very, very important. So so just like we know protein. Protein is is absolutely vital in order to build muscle, you know, in order to  recover from injury like you, you cannot do that without water. Like the body, like mechanically cannot. It can’t happen. It’s a raw material. It’s literally like, you know, making concrete, you know, with just the powder. It just doesn’t happen.


[00:42:58.205] – Chris Neal

You know, you need water in there. So so it’s very, very important for that. When it comes to sleep, sleep is directly connected to our steroid hormones, directly connected through melatonin. Melatonin is a steroid, you know, so and that whole family. So which is also very closely connected to cortisol. OK, so when cortisol levels are high because you’re not getting enough sleep, it makes drastic changes to your metabolism, to your your your ability to burn off fat and most notably your ability to recover also, you know, so those things are absolutely vital, absolutely vital to to recovery.


[00:43:37.895] – Sam

How much sleep you should get and how much water should you drink? I mean, is there a certain calculation for your for your body if you’re six foot three or whether you’re five foot 10 or should you just everybody should drink a certain amount of water to get enough in. And then how much sleep do you really need? I know it’s going to depend on the body, but what does the science say? You should get at least this much.


[00:43:58.295] – Chris Neal

So, you know, science says it’s very vague.


[00:44:01.595] – Chris Neal

There’s not there’s not a lot of great specificity into that, you know, but but you want to try and at least get in. If you’re specifically recovering, you’re trying to recover from something. You want to try and get as close to eight hours as you can. You know, if you’re really trying to focus on recovery, you know, it’s really important. It’s actually more important than watching the news. It’s more important than, you know, surfing the Internet or checking Facebook.


[00:44:24.665] – Chris Neal

You know, getting that and adding that additional hour of sleep is is really important. I did a video actually on my on my YouTube channel, all about the the the how important sleep is. And there’s this there’s this process that I call landing the plane. You know, that’s that’s very important. So many of us are you know, we’re so busy. We’re running around like crazy. We’re working out, you know, and and then we’re trying to keep up with our social media and everything.



And then it’s time for bed. You know, it doesn’t it doesn’t work like that. It’s like landing, landing, you know, putting yourself in a landing pattern, you know, and slowing things down before bed. You’ll actually have a much, much more efficient sleep, you know, because the first the first one or two or three hours of your sleep, your body’s just trying to slow down from the rat race. You put it through during the day, you know, so so putting yourself in that landing pattern an hour, hour and a half before bedtime is is just another way to if you can’t get in more time, sometimes you can just get in more efficient, you know, sleep.


[00:45:20.465] – Sam

And what is it you would do? What are a couple of the things you might do to start landing that plane like so your phones down, don’t worry.



What things to you to try and try and limit the try and limit the stimulation, the brain stimulation through if that’s through like, you know, TV or the phones or whatever. One of the things that I do, I, I intentionally start talking softer, you know, I move slower and I start talking and my wife knows that. You know what, I’m walking a little slower. You know, she knows I’m landing the plane. I start to turn the lights down a little bit lower.



You know, they even have certain types of tea. I know it sounds weird, but like I love this sleepytime tea. It’s good. It’s really good. Yeah, we have. You get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.


[00:46:04.085] – Chris Neal

And then like Camomile is another one and and all of the all of those things are great just to you know, some people like to you know, like they’ll take a hot bath or a shower or something but try and decrease the stimulation to your brain because the number one reason why people have trouble sleeping or even even if they don’t call it quite a trouble sleeping, if they don’t get efficient sleep, it’s up here. It’s in your brain. So we have to start landing this before we before we shut our eyes, you know, and that can really help.


[00:46:32.975] – Sam

Okay. And then lastly, before we go, what what would be a good amount of water that you should take per day to try to get in.  Like how people put to get the big jug, you sit up there and say, I have to drink this much water, what would that amount be? That would be a good target to hit.


[00:46:52.615] – Chris Neal

Yeah. So there are calculations for that, you know, that aren’t always very specific. You know, I’m not a big fan of of just standard equations that don’t really that aren’t individualized to people, you know, so so I don’t have a great answer for that. I always try and tell everyone to to shoot for a gallon of water a day if you can. That’s a lot. You know, or at least drink as much water as you can until you start peeing clear or close to clear.


[00:47:19.495] – Chris Neal

You know, that’s a good way to do it. The best the most specific way to do it, honestly, would be to look at your labs and we review your kidney function. And I can tell everybody is born with different types of kidneys, you know, so I can tell based on your kidney function, how well you’re hydrated, you know, and that’s the most specific way to do it.


[00:47:37.315] – Sam

OK, and Kristen, she asks, she drinks water, but her scales telling her she’s not hydrated enough. Could this be due to not enough electrolytes? Is there a transport for water that keeps water in your system that you need to take with water, or is it just water? And why and why would you be drinking a bunch of water and your body still feels dehydrated. Is there a medical reason for that?


[00:48:00.625] – Chris Neal

Yes, there. That’s that’s a complicated question. There are medical reasons for that.


[00:48:04.795] – Chris Neal

There are electrolyte disturbances, intellectual issues, depending on the rest of her diet and what she’s taking in. You know, I would want to look at that. There are some people that actually take in to try and fix this, they take in salt supplements, you know, with their water, just with their food to try and offset that.


[00:48:22.855] – Chris Neal

But the scales that I’m assuming that she’s she’s talking about one of those scales with the with the silver pads that you see, I’m sure.  You know and, you know, they’re not incredibly accurate. So, you know, I would I would say, you know, if you’re if you’re working out regularly and you are breaking a sweat appropriately and you know, your pee is relatively clear, then those are those are the best telltale signs that you’re doing well from that standpoint.


[00:48:49.285] – Sam

So does it take a while before you get hydrated or should, you know, for a few days to do it or can you get hydrated in a really short period of time?


[00:48:56.845] – Chris Neal

Yeah, well, you can get hydrated in a short period of time, but your body gets used to it in about, you know, a week. OK,


[00:49:05.185] – Sam

if you just start, that’s not going to retain water, because what I’ve heard before is that when you get that, if you’re dehydrated and when you do that on a regular basis, then you take this surge of water in your body is going to say, oh, my gosh, I haven’t had water for a long time, going to keep this.


[00:49:18.805] – Sam

And then after you continue to take in that water supply day after day after day for a while, then your body gets used to it. It’s like, OK, I’m going to have this water. I can release some of it and not be waterlogged or have, you know, have excess water. How long do you think that takes before? If you are dehydrated, you go you start drinking your water a gallon a day. How long can you expect before your body says, OK, I believe I’m going to continue to get water tomorrow, I’m not going to save it like a camel?


[00:49:47.045] – Chris Neal

Yeah, it usually takes it. Well, it usually takes three to I’d say three days, three to seven days even at the max, you know, for for your body’s checks and balances to get used to that, you know, and and your you know, your it’s so I would say three to seven days, you know, is the short answer. All right.



Kristwn says she says she also has water retention. Is that normal? And the we’re almost at an hour now. So why don’t we get some water retention is water equivalent?


[00:50:20.865] – Chris Neal

There’s not necessarily. No.


[00:50:22.685] – Chris Neal

So water water retention is usually an after effect for some other type of hormonal disorder. You know, there are a lot of hormones that that cause your body to retain water, you know, not just dealing with your kidneys, you know, estrogen being one of them. You know, there’s there’s a lot of issues. So that’s a more complicated, complicated question you’ve got to schedule. Consult for that one, actually. Yeah. All right.


[00:50:44.735] – Sam

So, you know, this this was the first one to do Lifestream. Thank you. Kris Nelson was the right girl for setting all this up and allowing this to stream from zoom over to YouTube and then to multiple Facebook pages and then also obviously to you, Chris. And people need to check you out on your YouTube channel, Real Science with Chris Neal. Were you actually geek out on this stuff if you want to get into the geekiness yes, that’s right.


[00:51:08.915] – Sam

So that’s kind of if you feel like that stuff, go to channel, check that out. But, yeah, I think we should all put this out when we’re going to do these things. But I think we should do this like once a week, once every two weeks or so, and and just let people ask questions. We just answer them like we just all the stuff that you can’t normally ask or you have bro science, you have 50 different places on the Internet to tell you one thing and someone else.


[00:51:31.625] – Sam

We need people to be able to come here and get just answers to common questions that they have. Mm hmm. I wanted to thank you again, Chris. And if nothing else, I’m going to thank you for everybody out there to ask questions that helps fuel this. And we’ll just continue to do this on a weekly or or once every two weeks or whatever.


[00:51:50.915] – Chris Neal

I like it. Thank you very much, guys. I really appreciate it.


[00:51:54.485] – Chris Neal

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