Gonadorelin or HCG? Which is Better? Join us on YouTube or Facebook December 10, 2020 at 7pm EST where Chris Neal and Sam Ridgeway discuss the differences between these two compounds and why you might want one over the other.
Transcript
[00:00:00.145] – Sam Ridgeway
Chris Neal, who is our clinical supervisor over at Viking Alternative Medicine. Today, what we’re going to talk about is something that a lot of people have had an issue with, and that’s HCG versus Gonadorelin. And the reason this became such a controversial topic is because earlier this year, I think they labeled HCG as a biologic, which is in the same classification is like blood or urine, and it could no longer be compounded by compounding facilities. Therefore, there was a certain date which you could no longer get it, and a lot of clinics stopped using it and started pushing Gonadorelin.
[00:00:32.425] – Sam Ridgeway
Now, Viking has had it the entire time. You had a choice the whole time. How we had it, I’m not really sure, but we did. And we’ll continue to have it because it’s becoming more readily available. But that was the controversy. And so to answer all the questions that we get all of the time about how does Gonadorelin work, how does HCG work, what is this, which one’s better and all the other things? We’re going to address that right now with Chris.
[00:00:57.025] – Sam Ridgeway
So, Chris, once you tell everybody, well, first of all, if you want to ask questions, you go to Livelikeaviking.com/chat again, live Livelikeaviking.com/chat That’s we can consolidate all of the questions so we don’t have to look at Facebook and YouTube and so on. So, Chris, why don’t you give a brief introduction of yourself, give everybody your YouTube channel, and then we’ll get going with some of the questions.
[00:01:19.255] – Chris Neal
Hey, guys, how’s it going? This is Chris Neal and I am the clinical supervisor for Viking Alternative. And I also have my own YouTube channel. It’s Real Science with Chris Neal. So that’s when we go in and really dive into the science behind these topics. And and we get into, you know, knee deep into the into the the these kind of the details. And that’s where I really have a good time. So all of this is very, very exciting.
[00:01:44.425] – Chris Neal
So we’re going to do our best to try and answer some questions for you and make some sense out of all this. I was talking to Sam earlier about just TRT, HRT, like hormone therapy. All of this stuff is very, very new. And I’m very excited about being on the pioneer end of of all of this like this. A lot of the questions that come out there, some of it some of them can be answered in in research studies.
[00:02:08.395] – Chris Neal
But honestly, a lot of the research takes years to produce and come up with. And the research that we’re trying to pull from there, they’re looking at studies or topics that are completely different than HRT, you know, so we so we have to take the tools that we have available, make some sense out of the science, in the mechanics behind things, and do what we can to to try and and and utilize these tools towards, you know, towards optimization.
[00:02:34.675] – Chris Neal
And that’s really the goal, you know, because optimization, performance, medicine, all of this stuff, as I’m sure all of you guys know in are seeing right now, is that that is a very needed in a very new thing that that you can’t just walk into your primary care doctor and hope to to get so a good knowledge base on. So but yeah. So that’s me. Real science with Chris Neil, please like and subscribe and and hit me up and then we’ll, we’ll get started with this.
[00:03:01.795] – Sam Ridgeway
All right, Chris. So to start all this off, I think we should start off with just to answer the question of what’s the overall purpose of both HCG and Gonadorelin, why do you need either one of them?
[00:03:14.795] – Chris Neal
OK, so to start off with, I’m going to go back in history a little bit and talk talk a little bit about we’re going to go back into into the bro science, you know, the the dark ages. So we used to have this thing called cycles, cycles of TRT and testosterone. So what basically the way they would the way a lot of the cycles would run is that you would take testosterone or some version of testosterone. And in the in the medical world, we would call this testosterone monotherapy.
[00:03:49.405] – Chris Neal
So let’s say you’re just taking testosterone by itself. OK, and what happens to your body? Because your your brain especially is the management system for hormones and everything else that’s going on in your body. So the brain has lots of checks and balances. Negative feedback is what we call it. So if you’re taking testosterone just by itself, testosterone monotherapy, what happens very, very quickly is your natural pathway for for producing and for your for your testicular function shuts off, OK?
[00:04:20.335] – Chris Neal
And that happens in the brain. I’ll go into a little bit more detail on my YouTube channel about that. But that basically happens by stopping a signal called gonadotropin releasing hormone. OK, or while .GNRH is in other words, we call it so .GNRH in the brain, it’s responsible for sending two small hormones. And all they do, they’re just two little signals, L.H. and SFH. And these two signals, all they do, they they send a signal down to the testicles.
[00:04:48.575] – Chris Neal
This is our testicles or testicles are just a factory, OK? They don’t care whether they’re attached to the body or not. They’re just a factory. If they get the signal to keep the lights on in the factory, then the lights stay on in the fact. Sorry, I just I drew a factory here. I’m not going to sit here and drop your balls on my.
[00:05:04.205] – Sam Ridgeway
I knew that was the factory. Yeah, I’m not going to I’m not going to desecrate my white board by this.
[00:05:10.055] – Chris Neal
So.
[00:05:11.255] – Chris Neal
So, yeah, all it is, is a light switch to the factory. If it’s lights on in the factory, it’s great. If not, then you then you don’t get it. So once, once you start taking testosterone, it’s lights out. And that causes a lot of things that we know in bro science that they just happens. Testicular atrophy, your balls will shrink. OK, this is something that happens, your natural testicular function. So let’s say your body, naturally, you’re at a three hundred or three fifty, you know, some people, 400, 500 or whatever.
[00:05:39.575] – Chris Neal
So let’s say that’s where you are. Naturally, once that once that factory shuts off, you’re naturally zero or 10 or something like that. I mean, it’s very, very low. So you’re cruising along with the testosterone that you’re injecting. OK, other things happen, but let’s say it’s time to get off of the testosterone. OK, so once you get off of the testosterone, this factory has had its doors shut for the entire time that you’ve been on testosterone.
[00:06:03.905] – Chris Neal
So now if you get off of testosterone, hoping that the factory will just light back up, it doesn’t work that way. You know, it takes a long time, if ever, that it just turns back on all by itself. So guys would get off of testosterone and they would drop from however much testosterone they’re taking that exogenously to zero or ten. And if you think you feel bad at three hundred, you know, try zero and then you really feel bad.
[00:06:30.245] – Chris Neal
So that’s where that’s where the theory of guys would think to themselves, oh my God, I feel so bad. I must have to stay on this the rest of my life. And that’s where I came from, you know, when in reality we don’t have to shut the doors down on our factory at all. You know, why not? If we can keep it running naturally the way it’s supposed to keep it running. So that’s the whole idea behind all of this stuff.
[00:06:53.195] – Chris Neal
Now, do you have to keep it running? No, you don’t. But you’re going to miss out on some things, you know, and that’s that’s the whole idea. So the options, HCG or Gonadorelin, the premise behind them is, is just to keep the factory going.
[00:07:07.475] – Chris Neal
So
[00:07:07.865] – Sam Ridgeway
Now do you get a bump in your testosterone production? Because not only you do it when you’re on TRT because you’re taking exogenous testosterone, plus you’re taking HCG or Gonadorelin and then that factory continues to produce. So does that increase the amount of testosterone in your body or does OK, and I’m sure it varies by person, but what could you expect like a bump in that testosterone level to maybe be?
[00:07:36.545] – Chris Neal
So usually guys with just Høeg, like if you were to let’s say you weren’t taking testosterone and you were just taking HCG for example, we call that HCG monotherapy. It’s usually not enough not enough kick to really get you really optimized. But I mean, that can get you up to 450, you know, maybe five hundred depending on the person. Yeah, but it gets you up in it. It can, it can get you up in a decent range, you know, just by itself.
[00:08:03.695] – Chris Neal
So it, it does help 400, 450, you know, it gets you a good rate. So now if you take if you’re talking four hundred plus whatever you’re injecting of testosterone, 400 is a good amount, that’ll get you somewhere. It’s a lot better than zero, you know, so, so it does help. But the factory itself produces natural testosterone, OK, the testicles, the factory themselves have a lot to do with your sexual sensitivity.
[00:08:29.105] – Chris Neal
I’ve had a lot of guys, a lot of guys that that start out on therapy and they’re like, no, no, no, I don’t want to be on HCG or anything like that. And it’s like, OK, cool, if you don’t want to. By the way, this is how it works. Now, I want to try just without it, just to see what happens. It’s like, OK, cool. So they try it without it.
[00:08:46.385] – Chris Neal
And then, you know, two, three, four months later they lose their sexual sensitivity.
[00:08:51.695] – Chris Neal
They’re like, I can’t feel anything down there. What’s going on, you know, or the third thing, the strength of orgasm. I can’t even finish at all like it doesn’t happen, you know, and that that’s a that’s a problem for a lot of guys. And and, yes, the fourth thing, it does produce sperm. It does not. Everybody needs that. You know, honestly, like, I we just had our sixth child, so I don’t need that part anymore.
[00:09:18.975] – Chris Neal
But but but yeah. So we just, you know, so but but it is a part of the factory, you know, and now when you’re talking about fertility. So this is kind of trailing off a little bit. But another old wives tale, I guess, is that if you’re on TRT, you can’t get pregnant, you know, and that’s not the case. I hear that all the time.
[00:09:39.215] – Sam Ridgeway
People like I don’t want to go on HRT because my fiancee, my wife, whatever, wants to have a baby. And then I tell them about you and your child. And I’m like, yeah, so that’s our clinical supervisor. But go ahead.
[00:09:51.595] – Chris Neal
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it doesn’t work that way. It’s all about keeping the factory open. And it’s as simple as that. It’s as simple as that. So testosterone. Monotherapy, they actually did a really good study in China where they were it was a study on contraceptives, so they took a large group of men.
[00:10:08.985] – Chris Neal
I think it was like three or four thousand men or two thousand men. And they a large sample study of two thousand men. And they gave them testosterone monotherapy. And in through this whole study, they found that they were like ninety nine point nine percent sterile, you know, as a complete contraceptive, like they were not having they had, you know, not not an experiment. So it was actually a pretty solid study.
[00:10:34.155] – Chris Neal
So, you know,
[00:10:35.715] – Sam Ridgeway
one of the things I see about this in your chart is. Is as far as that L.H. and FSH go. A lot of people, when they come to their labs and they get on TRT and all of a sudden they get their labs done the next time and that LH and FSH is like down to nothing. And they’re freaking out like they’re. Oh, my gosh. You know, so just maybe reinforce the fact that that’s expected.
[00:10:58.895] – Sam Ridgeway
And that’s not something to really freak out about when you see your labs.
[00:11:03.065] – Chris Neal
Absolutely. So labs are are are set up and they’re designed to be read very, very quickly. That’s why they have things in red. They have things in bold. And you don’t have to really understand the labs in order to make it through there. So the which isn’t good, like if we’re talking about optimization, how you feel and like all of these factors, there’s a much deeper level that we have to go into with your labs.
[00:11:27.365] – Chris Neal
So any guy on on on basic testosterone therapy, like I said, the testosterone will knock out your Gonadorelin releasing hormone, which means these two pathways are knocked out. They’re zero. They’re not going to produce anymore. OK, so now comes in either HCG OK or where’s my where’s my Gonadorelin yeah.
[00:11:55.655] – Chris Neal
Or Gonadorelin. OK, so I’m going to put in Gonadorelin over here. I hope you guys can see this. I can see it. HCG, Gonadorelin. OK, so depending on which one we’re going to go with. So this is where the labs and this is where where where things can get a little tricky. But I’m going to go into HCG first. OK, so let’s say we start taking testosterone, L.H.and FSH and boom, it’s knocked out, OK.
[00:12:26.895] – Chris Neal
Testosterone did that. All right. So we’re no longer getting this if you get your labs done LH and FSH will essentially be zero, FSH sometimes drags along a little bit, but basically they’re zero.
[00:12:41.665] – Chris Neal
So now now we bring in HCG. HCG is is what’s called an analog. So it looks like L.H. looks just like it. It’s not L.H. So it’s not going to show up on your labs like that. But it looks like there’s a part of the shape of it that looks very much like L.H. and HCG can flip on the light switch to the majority of your testicle factory. Not the whole thing, but the majority of flips on the L.H. light switch.
[00:13:11.155] – Chris Neal
There’s still FSH light switches that we’re not able to hit completely with HCG. And but basically the factory is able to to to keep the doors open and keep things running. And we can get most of these things going pretty well. So still, your your your labs of LH and FSH are going to be pretty low.
[00:13:29.035] – Chris Neal
Now, that’s that part. So good. Now, OK, let me let me say this now. When it comes to when it comes to your testicular factory, this is where everybody is very, very different.
[00:13:40.525] – Chris Neal
Most most guys can can keep the doors open and they get good testicular function off of what I call our standard dose of HCG, which is usually somewhere around 250 I use of twice a week.
[00:13:55.795] – Chris Neal
Now, some people need a little bit more, and that’s OK. It doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with HCG it just means that some people need a little bit more. So there’s varying ways of taking. Now, if you’re looking for an increase in these things, especially like fertility we’re having, we do we do help people with fertility. So increasing their sperm production, things like that, we can increase HCG and others in order to make that happen.
[00:14:20.695] – Chris Neal
So different dosing here for that, you know, for different issues. But so that’s that’s basically.
[00:14:27.025] – Sam Ridgeway
So those are the reasons why, you know, like if you if you just took 250 units twice a week, what are some of the things I might feel to tell me I might want to go a little bit higher? Is it the reduced sexual sensitivity? Is it those items that you have listed there or are there other things that can give you an indicator that you might need to bump up that HCG?
[00:14:49.295] – Chris Neal
That’s an excellent question. The best indicator is if you’re noticing testicular shrinkage, if you’re noticing testicular shrinkage, then you need to go up. Then you need to talk to your medical provider and have a consultation with them and work on increasing the dosage, which is perfectly healthy. There’s no side effects. There’s no problems with it. You know, there’s no issues your body’s not going to get used to HCG. You know, that’s another thing. You know, people ask me all the time, like, you know, is my body going to get desensitized to HCG and NO it doesn’t it doesn’t happen like that because the brain naturally consistently produces LH and the body doesn’t get desensitized to that, you know?
[00:15:27.625] – Chris Neal
So it’s not going to get desensitized to it because as far as the factory is concerned, it’s the same thing. OK, so so that’s that’s that part. So enter in Gonadorelin. So Gonadorelin is it’s a lot more new than HCG. There’s been some good research on it. You know, in and the mechanics behind it. We do understand a lot of the mechanics behind it, which are very interesting. And it’s been used for for sexual issues and fertility issues, you know, for for a number of years.
[00:16:01.825] – Chris Neal
But it’s very, very new in the TRT world and understanding how that works. So but it is it has been working really well. So as with you know, I’ve been on topic and Gonadorelin and Kisspeptin, it’s another one for over a year now, you know, researching this and understanding it.
[00:16:18.035] – Chris Neal
And then so Viking has had a chance to have a lot of good, like real patient experience with Gonadorelin. And and we found that it works really well. You know, overall, we found that it that it works really, really well. You know, I can’t say now with every single medication out there, everybody’s different. These are tools. And we have to understand how the tools work and make adjustments as we go along. That’s what optimization and dialing in is all about.
[00:16:41.725] – Chris Neal
But we’ve been really excited about going around and we still are carrying HCG, too. So we just I’m a tool guy. You guys know that.
[00:16:48.145] – Sam Ridgeway
So so does Gonadorelin do the same things that are if you’re probably going to go into that, but does Gonadorelin do the same things that HCG does at the bottom of the the factory there.
[00:16:59.605] – Chris Neal
No, it doesn’t. So this is where it’s different Gonadorelin has a fancy term for synthetic gonadotropin releasing hormones. It’s the same thing. It’s just a synthetic version of it. So when when Gonadorelin comes in, it flips on the switch to allow the brain to produce LH and FSH all over again. And it sends a big pulse of LH and FSH out of the brain and traveling down into the testicles and flipping the light switch on your LH and your FSH light switch.
[00:17:36.655] – Chris Neal
OK, just like it would naturally. All right, so there are a lot of really cool factors that happen inside the brain that if we can. If we can. Reset the cascade, the higher up the chain, we’re able to reset the cascade, there’s all kinds of little things that can happen, you know, that that that bring things back to normal, basically. So so that’s that’s one of the big reasons why we’re excited about the Gonadorelin and how it works.
[00:18:02.065] – Chris Neal
And it’s still just like HCG these things. You know, we there is a standard dose that we have out there. Again, this is very new. Some people just like HCG, some people have to be on a little bit higher dose. It’s still very safe. It works very well, you know, but but the biggest factor to look for and we have seen this in our experience with Gonadorelin and so far, you know, there are some small say pretty rare amount.
[00:18:25.885] – Chris Neal
But like it does happen where I’ve seen guys that they switch from Heg to Gonadorelin, and they say, hey, I’m feeling good, but I’m noticing just a little bit of testicular shrinkage. So we increase the dose and they do fine, you know, actually increase the frequency on an excuse me. So from two times a week to three times a week. And and it works well. It works really well. But but what’s nice about it is that you were getting the FSH light switch now.
[00:18:53.545] – Chris Neal
So now the whole factory, not just part of the factory, but the whole factory is wide open again.
[00:18:58.705] – Sam Ridgeway
Now, can you can you build up a challenge to Gonadorelin? I mean, you can’t heg, you say, but with Canada and there’s a lot of people that say you have to cycle it, you have it, your body starts getting used to it. You build up a tolerance to it, or is it the same as HCG you just keep using it? Your body doesn’t have any of that problem.
[00:19:19.165] – Chris Neal
So at reasonable doses, you do not build up a tolerance to it. You know, if you were to go to, you know, superhigh extreme doses and then you can it’s possible you can build up a tolerance to it. But even that would be a pretty tall order, you know, and and it would be I would be wondering why you would want to take, you know, such ridiculous doses. But no.
[00:19:40.585] – Chris Neal
And so so for, you know, reasonably speaking, no, you can’t really build up a tolerance to it.
[00:19:46.555] – Sam Ridgeway
Now, what does FSH do? You the LH. I got that to the testicles produce the testosterone. What does the FSH do again.
[00:19:54.205] – Chris Neal
Oh, now you’re now you’re going down the rabbit hole. Now, you know, is that is that too far? I’m rubbing off on you.
[00:20:00.565] – Sam Ridgeway
Why would I want to be turned on if if if HCG just does the whole mimics LH and that seems to work. OK, why would I want FSH to turn on also what are the extra benefits that I’m getting out of F.S.H turn on on a on a 50000 foot view.
[00:20:20.555] – Chris Neal
OK, so the biggest part of that is going to be well so so that one is is a little bit tough. Most of that is going to be sperm production and there’s a lot of the sexual side effects that are that are blended over into that. So so I’ll do it. I’ll do it like this. This is the best way I can.
[00:20:44.485] – Chris Neal
I can describe it. OK, FSH and then. And. L.H.. So they’re kind of they’re kind of blending together like so so L.H. is going to be natural testosterone and FSH is going to be sperm production in somewhere in the middle between these things, we don’t quite understand how they work with sexual sensitivity and orgasm strength.
[00:21:17.195] – Chris Neal
You know, are there OK that that stuff that is very new and has not really been well studied, you know, but occasionally I’m going to mention it. So occasionally I’ll come across a guy that that is on testosterone.
[00:21:32.705] – Chris Neal
We just have more just on testosterone and maybe some anastrozole, although not doing HCG at all. And they’re saying, hey, Chris, by the way, I’m having no testicular atrophy, I’m having no testicular shrinkage sexually. I’m doing great and I’m not on HCG at all. So I’m on nothing, you know, for that from that standpoint. OK, that’s awesome. Good for you. Keep it up. You know, that’s that’s rare, but that’s awesome.
[00:21:52.265] – Chris Neal
And what I found is that and I do find that from time to time, just about every single time I see that their FSH value there I’m sorry, their LH value is on the labs it’s usually like less than zero point zero two or something like that, you know, but they’re they’re F.S.H value. It’s not zero. It’s usually like one point five or one point two, it’s but it’s higher than what I would expect. So it’s like sometimes how I was saying sometimes FSH lags a little bit and sometimes for whatever reason, in some people it doesn’t turn off all the way, just gets turned down a little bit.
[00:22:34.465] – Chris Neal
So so that that makes up for what the LH isn’t doing. LH is always there’s always the first one to die off, you know, and but FS.H. is able to carry some of that sexual sensitivity and orgasm strength.
[00:22:48.985] – Sam Ridgeway
OK, so what if you’re crazy like me and you got this thing that you’re you constantly think about being, if I can get something from HCG that I’m not getting from Gonadorelin and vice versa. What if I do both of them at the same time?
[00:23:04.365] – Sam Ridgeway
If that’s how my brain works now, is that a negative like you never would? That would never be something you would do.
[00:23:11.125] – Chris Neal
Well, it’s it’s not it’s not going to hurt you, but it is redundant is probably the best way I can put it. And just because you’re Gonadorelin is going to do both. You’re going to get both out of Gonadorelin. HCG, you’re going to get one.
[00:23:26.395] – Sam Ridgeway
OK, so if we go out, what what would be some are there any negative side effects that happen from either, let’s say, HCG or Gonadorelin? Is there someone that comes to you and says, I’m having these negative symptoms?
[00:23:40.255] – Sam Ridgeway
And you’re like, oh, that must be the HCG or Gonadorelin or is there nothing negative that happens if you use either one of those?
[00:23:48.805] – Chris Neal
So from a mechanical standpoint, I have not seen or I cannot think of any negative side effects that would come from Gonadorelin. OK, from but like I said, we’re still very new with this. Know, I still even in the other research and everything, I can’t find anything. So now HCG, HCG has been around a long time for TRT use. So I have seen HCG- this is rare, but I have seen HCG precipitate gout attacks or start off sparked a gout attack.
[00:24:24.235] – Chris Neal
You know, I have seen that. I have seen that. So the most probably the most common side effect that I would see from either one of these. And this is not really a side effect. It’s just the guys don’t understand how it how it works. They’re used to running testosterone just by itself.
[00:24:42.415] – Chris Neal
So let’s say just what their testosterone they’re getting, they’re used to their testosterone around, you know, nine hundred. OK, so the the amount of estrogen blocker you have to use is based on your total testosterone number. Right. The higher your testosterone, the more blocker you have to use, if at all. So they’re used to running, you know, nine hundred testosterone.
[00:25:06.655] – Chris Neal
They used to running a certain amount of ianastrozole with it. All of a sudden they enter in HCG and they do not account for that. But now their factories are running. So now their testosterone levels going up another four hundred or so or so. So now their testosterone, thirteen hundred. And then all of a sudden, guess what happens? They get a little bit more estrogen than they thought they had before. And so people will say because of that, because they don’t understand how it works.
[00:25:33.535] – Chris Neal
Oh my God, HCG is causing me to have like erectile issues or it’s causing me to have like, you know, like it’s causing me to have be emotional or crying or like gyno HCG gave me gyno. It’s like, no, no, it doesn’t it doesn’t work that way. You know, it’s the it’s the. Because all of a sudden the factory is working. You know that you have to you have to account for that in your overall balance.
[00:25:55.835] – Sam Ridgeway
OK, well, hey, now we’ve I want to just throw it there one more time that in order to consolidate the questions that you put in, if you go to Livelikeaviking.com/chat, that’s where I’m looking at the screen. So then I can see your questions all consolidated from Facebook, all those channels, YouTube and so on. So if we look at if we make this where it’s interactive, which I love to do, Matthew says there’s a lot of science about about the dosing schedule for collateral and needing to be pulsed frequently throughout the day.
[00:26:24.985] – Sam Ridgeway
What is your take on this, Chris? Does Gonadorelin need to be.
[00:26:29.425] – Sam Ridgeway
Pulsed throughout the day. You have to take it more frequently than HCG or what’s what’s with that?
[00:26:35.065] – Chris Neal
So actually that’s a great question and that does not come from bro science. Actually, that comes from from some research studies where they were able to in a closed environment. They were actually able to put patients or animals on Gonadorelin through an IV and watch The LH and FSH productions and determine what’s the best way to to to stabilize their their LH and FSH productions, you know, so and then they kind of made some observations based on that.
[00:27:05.305] – Chris Neal
But what we found, which which is which is really interesting and this is the probably the best way I can describe it. This is this this is basically a timeline here, OK, and at a certain level. OK, at a certain level here, anything below this line, you’re going to get testicular atrophy. OK, testicular atrophy. OK, so things aren’t going well, that means I mean, the factory’s not not working well, right?
[00:27:38.865] – Chris Neal
So in anything above this line, things are going well, the factory is working OK. So now every time we let’s say let’s say each time we each each time we we we give a dosage like this is a dosage. This is a dosage. This is a dosage of of Gonadorelin, for example. OK, so every time you get a dose you’re going to you’re going to spike up.
[00:28:06.825] – Chris Neal
And then you’re going to come back down. You spike up. And you’re going to come back down. You spike up again now. OK, so up in this section, your lights, lights are on in the factory, OK, the levels are changed, but the lights are still on. It’s still working, you know, and because in reality, like, it’s not worth it for me to take Gonadorelin every single day or pulse it or take it five times a day or something like some of the research studies are recommending that you take it through, you know, three or four or five times a day.
[00:28:41.755] – Chris Neal
It just doesn’t make sense.
[00:28:42.985] – Chris Neal
So do I have to post it? Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, in order to keep the lights on in the factory? No, I mean, the factory lights, they might be going down, but then we can keep them up and we keep them in a relative good range, you know, and that’s the whole trick to this. So one thing we found is that for most people, twice a week at a pretty decent dosage, twice a week will actually keep the lights going, to keep things running.
[00:29:08.495]
So you’re not symptomatic. And that’s that’s the point then. That’s completely different. A completely different topic than the what the research studies are showing. They’re not talking about symptomatic symptoms, you know, whether you’re symptomatic or not, you know, but it’s a good question. And if you just go by, like, observations in a research study, then I can see why it would lead you to that. But but in reality, like, you know, you can take something, you know, or you can take this one twice, even three times a week, you know, and taking it seven days a week isn’t going to hurt you.
[00:29:40.495] – Chris Neal
You could do it that way. But do you necessarily have to you know, you don’t really have to. And that’s that’s what we’ve been finding.
[00:29:49.225] – Sam Ridgeway
OK, so here comes another question, which is this is a good one, too. If you experience testicular atrophy, can they regrow with hCG or Gonadorelin? And that’s one of the questions a lot of people have. Like like this already happened to me. How can I get things back to the way they are? Will these two items do that?
[00:30:08.785] – Chris Neal
It takes some time, depending on how long the testicular atrophy has been there. But in.
[00:30:18.435] – Chris Neal
I hate saying every single time, but I think in I want I want to say every single time I’ve I’ve I’ve worked with someone on a situation like that, it has come back.
[00:30:32.905] – Sam Ridgeway
So the answer is, yes, it can, right? Yeah. OK. And I’ve got a couple of questions here relating trying to relate HGH to assisting with that testicular atrophy or turning the factory on or something. There’s a couple people that mention that. But is that just entirely unrelated to each other?
[00:30:55.615] – Chris Neal
The there they are. HGH has a lot of things and it’s great at recovery, you know, regeneration, you know, growth. So very, very, very generically speaking, I guess it could help, but it doesn’t have anything to do with the mechanism that it doesn’t have anything to do with the mechanism here, you know, which is really the only way you’re going to you know, it’s like if you don’t have this going somehow, it doesn’t matter how much HGH you’re going to take it.
[00:31:24.835] – Chris Neal
It’s not going to do it’s not going to touch your your factory, you know, as far as keeping it running. All right. So from what I’ve seen here, what I’ve learned here today is basically that HCG mimics that LH and turns that that factory on. But it only has like one of the pipes.
[00:31:41.455] – Sam Ridgeway
It only turns on some of the switches, not all of them, whereas on the other side Gonadorelin tells your brain to go ahead and produce those two things, LHand FSH, within which then pretty much turns the factory on the whole factory that throws all the switches.
[00:31:56.545] – Sam Ridgeway
So if given that, why wouldn’t you just always want Gonadorelin what would be a benefit of HCG?
[00:32:05.545] – Sam Ridgeway
Would it be someone who doesn’t respond well to Gonadorelin or why? Why would you use HCG if you’re only getting half the switches turned on?
[00:32:15.115] – Chris Neal
Yeah, so that’s a good question. And whenever we work, whenever we do anything with the brain, things get things get exponentially more complicated. OK, so so there is a very small select percentage of people that are considered GNRH nonresponders. And which means that you just you just don’t respond to the medication at all, you know, and and that’s the case where a lot of medications and we understand that people say Tylenol just doesn’t work for me.
[00:32:44.725] – Chris Neal
I have to take ibuprofen, you know, and nobody gets bent out of shape about that. They say, oh, well, that’s just you. It sucks to be you, you know, take ibuprofen. And so it’s the same thing here. You know, I we we have a lot of tools to work with. I’m excited about having having more tools, you know, so so that’s kind of how we look at it. The I have.
[00:33:08.525] – Chris Neal
I’ve yet to determine if we’ve actually had a non-responder yet, possibly one, you know, but but, you know, it’s possible that I know mechanically it is out there. You know, there are there are nonresponders out there, but it’s rare.
[00:33:22.055] – Sam Ridgeway
OK, well, here is the 10 million dollar question, Chris. If given the choice, if you could only have one of these compounds in your refrigerator or at your house, which one would you choose and why
[00:33:35.135] – Chris Neal
I would have Gonadorelin
[00:33:36.875] – Chris Neal
Because there are the the cascade that the brain cascade in. One day I’m going to do a video on this. And and it’s it’s incredibly complex.
[00:33:48.545] – Chris Neal
All of the things that happen inside the brain to that are related to your body’s natural production of testosterone, the testicular factory sexual function.
[00:34:00.785] – Chris Neal
Here’s a here’s one right here, something that goes into that and and tell me how much we understand about this one. Ready?
[00:34:16.105] – Chris Neal
PT 141.
[00:34:20.515] – Sam Ridgeway
That’s wicked stuff I’m telling you. Yeah, that’ll get you going.
[00:34:24.565] – Chris Neal
Yeah. So that that is related to all of this weird stuff inside the brain. And we have we don’t we don’t know.
[00:34:31.465] – Chris Neal
But but we do know that if we’re just taking testosterone, it’s shut off. OK, and the whole cascade shut off, so anything we can do to to turn that cascade back on, we’re going to learn all. We’re going to restart all kinds of little small connections that we never knew we had.
[00:34:48.585] – Chris Neal
I don’t know. So, I mean, I get excited about all of that. Anything down down the pathway? Yes, it’ll work. It’s good to have it. But but I would choose Gonadorelin around over over those things.
[00:34:59.985] – Sam Ridgeway
See, I like this session because I have a lot of people when they call up, they’re like, I don’t want to have any kids anymore.
[00:35:06.345] – Sam Ridgeway
I have four kids, so take HCG out of it. You know, I don’t want HCG and that’s the basis for them not wanting HCG. So it’s good to see this to see it’s not just for that.
[00:35:19.065] – Sam Ridgeway
There are a lot of other factors that come into play because when you do this hormone replacement thing, the objective is to get optimized, but it’s to be everything that you were before and then more – and personally, I don’t like to take pieces out of it. I don’t like the atrophy. I don’t like the, you know, the sexual sensitivity issues, the other things that come with not putting this in there. And if there’s really no reason for it, if you don’t become, you know, tolerate it, the tolerance isn’t built up.
[00:35:50.265] – Sam Ridgeway
If it doesn’t negatively affect you, if your body isn’t hurt forever, if all of these things aren’t factors, the question would be why wouldn’t you implement HCG into your protocol or Gonadorelin turn all of that, to turn that factory on?
[00:36:07.815] – Sam Ridgeway
Is there any reason why you wouldn’t.
[00:36:11.625] – Chris Neal
So? So yes. Yes, I have come across some guys that give me stronger reasons than I can ever give them for being on it, you know, so I have a short list now just but let me first say that, like for for us, like, we are not here to force you to take things, do things our way or whatever or like do this particular protocol or hammer you at all. If there’s if if you know, whenever I have guys that say, hey, these are the reasons why I want to be off of it, for us, it’s just about understanding, like I would rather, you know, this whole process and understand how it works and then make your own decision.
[00:36:44.475] – Chris Neal
And I’m here for you either way, you know, and that’s that’s how we like to handle things. And at the end of all of this, you know, I have guys that will say, you know what, Chris? I am thirty years old. I am a bachelor, and I really, really don’t want to have to worry about having kids. And I’m, you know, running around. I’m doing my thing. And I want I that’s one last thing I want to have on my mind.
[00:37:04.785] – Chris Neal
And it’s worth it to not have that.
[00:37:06.165] – Sam Ridgeway
I was like, OK, that’s that’s a but that’s not a guarantee.
[00:37:10.935] – Sam Ridgeway
That’s just a lesser probability. Right. I mean, you don’t want to be out there thinking that. You just can’t possiblyget anybody pregnant.
[00:37:20.945] – Chris Neal
it’s not it’s not a guarantee, but it does decrease your chances significantly. But but no, it’s not a guarantee that I’ll take my word for that. But but but that’s that’s that’s a big that’s a big factor for some people, you know. And and if they’re still able to perform sexually, which they may or may not be able to do, in most cases, they have a loss of sexual function with that. You know, but but that’s an issue like sometimes for some people it’s a financial issue, you know, and and I get that know.
[00:37:50.705] – Chris Neal
And then after some amount of time and they are able to get back on it, you know, but or, you know, some guys just don’t you know, they they want to try and stick to as few options as possible, you know, so we’re here for you either way.
[00:38:06.335] – Sam Ridgeway
So let’s hit one was one last question, which would be if you were on testosterone replacement therapy and you decided that you wanted to come off for some reason, it made you sick or anything like that.
[00:38:19.115] – Sam Ridgeway
What would these components, what role would they play in getting you back to where you were before you started taking exogenous testosterone.
[00:38:30.245] – Chris Neal
That’s a great question, I came across that today, actually, so so if you want to get off of testosterone therapy, understand that you’re going to go back down to your baseline, OK? If you’ve been on testosterone, if you if you started testosterone therapy when you’re 30 and now you’re 40 years old, and guess what?
[00:38:47.405] – Chris Neal
Your baseline is going to be a lot lower than it was when you were 30. First off, so you got to understand that.
[00:38:51.305] – Chris Neal
But so but if you want to go back to your baseline, then you want to get off of testosterone therapy. If you’ve been running one of these already, then you have a much, much easier way to go, OK?
[00:39:03.395] – Chris Neal
And the reason why is because your factory has been cranking along just fine all along as if nothing ever happened. OK, so as soon as you back off of the testosterone. OK, you can back off the testosterone and any kind of estrogen blocker you may or may not be taking. Then you keep the HCG going just to give your just to give your factory a little encouragement. So I would go through a whole nother round of HCG for probably 10 weeks.
[00:39:30.075] – Chris Neal
I would just run just HCG monotherapy. So at this point, HCG is going over those 10 weeks, your brain will naturally restart and start to start to send your LH and FSH signals again. It should. It should. And once that happens, then you’ll have these two signals going, you have your HCG going after a couple after 10 weeks, then you pull off any of these natural signals, keeping the lights on in the factory and then you’re good, you know.
[00:39:57.175] – Chris Neal
But still, the overall process or the overall condition of low testosterone hypogonadism is not something that you can repair. It’s not something that you can fix. So that’s still going to be there in the background, you know, but it’s a heck of a lot better than if you weren’t running HCG at all. This is shut off that the testicular factory’s doors have been shut for five years or whatever, and you try and just get off testosterone. Then, you know, you’re you’re left with a testosterone level of like 10 or 15 or something.
[00:40:29.005] – Chris Neal
And I see that, you know, I see super low testosterone levels.
[00:40:32.335] – Chris Neal
And those guys really, really, really feel like crap,
[00:40:35.395] – Sam Ridgeway
You know? Let me ask you this one, too. Just can you overdo testosterone when you’re younger to where your body just doesn’t produce it anymore? Or could you do something like this to bring that testosterone production back? Let’s say you’re just stupid as a kid, 18, 19, 20 years old, used abused testosterone. And we have a lot of people that come to us that make that claim.
[00:40:58.375] – Sam Ridgeway
I did a lot of steroids when I was young. So now my body just doesn’t produce any testosterone. Is that is is there truth in that or is there a way to actually they could really bring that back if they wanted to to normal levels.
[00:41:14.035] – Chris Neal
So there is a lot of truth to that. But it’s usually not because of the reason why they think, you know, the so your steroid hormone family is kind of like a like a tree, you know, and whatever whenever there’s a whenever there’s a hormonal imbalance, whenever something happens to drastically shake the tree, something violent happens. And it could be it could be overloading one branch. So taking all kinds of hormones on one side and just and your your body’s response to that is is is challenging.
[00:41:49.645]
Sometimes it can be it can be stress. It can be a drastic change in your weight or metabolic syndrome. You know, it can be a medical illness an injury like a virus can do it. There’s all kinds of things, you know, that can cause a major hormone imbalance. So oftentimes when your body tries to recover from that balance, it’s not the same, you know, in a perfect example of that would be pregnancy. You know, any woman that has a baby – after the baby, like hear you hear this all the time.
[00:42:22.395] – Chris Neal
My body is not the same. It’s just not, you know, because your hormones go they go through the roof, like from all like numbers standpoint.
[00:42:30.225] – Chris Neal
If we were to just look at the numbers of a of a pregnant woman, you know, some of those numbers can be astronomical, very much like somebody that’s abusing testosterone or other hormones. They just go to crazy levels, you know.
[00:42:41.235] – Chris Neal
But but that’s a part of a natural process. But still, it’s that’s a that’s a really big shift. It’s a really big imbalance. And as your body tries to naturally let the dust settle, it doesn’t always fall, you know, perfect the way it’s supposed to.
[00:42:56.955] – Chris Neal
So so because
[00:42:58.665] – Sam Ridgeway
Any of those guys out there or anybody listening that knows somebody that’s younger, that’s just gung ho, I’m invincible. I can do whatever I want. I’m going to be perfectly fine. The truth to that is that’s not entirely true. You really have to be careful. Do not abuse these things. They will come back to haunt you later in life. You’re not doing something that can be recovered from fully. There’s a possibility that that may not happen.
[00:43:24.105] – Sam Ridgeway
Right. So. So there’s truth to that. Don’t abuse this stuff. That’s right.
[00:43:29.025] – Chris Neal
Absolutely. That’s the reason why we have medical management for this. And getting with a clinic that understands hormones and knows how to work with them and individually with people you know, and how to do this safely and conservatively, we don’t tell you, you know, hey, you have to be careful with this and you’ve got to keep this in at a low dose. We don’t tell you that just for the heck of it. Like we tell you that because these things do have big concerns that we have to all put together, you know?
[00:43:56.535] – Sam Ridgeway
OK, so so during the session, it’s awesome we wrap that up, but we’ve learned how we’ve learned the overall purpose of HCG in Gonadorelin how it works in the body. How does how good does what happens to your body if you don’t use it? What happens to your body if you do use it? Can you build up a tolerance? Are there any negative side effects? Do you have to cycle it or pulse it? And we’ve also got the question, the answer from you.
[00:44:20.295] – Sam Ridgeway
If you had the choice between the two, you choose Gonadorelin. over HCG. So I think that was great. So I don’t see any more questions. So we’ll just wrap this up. Thirty minutes. That’s a good time. We’re 45 minutes. Wow. OK, that’s a good time. But anyway, Chris, again, why don’t you tell everybody YouTube channel and then we’ll just sign off and come back next Thursday with some more information.
[00:44:41.665] – Chris Neal
All right.
[00:44:42.015] – Chris Neal
Yeah. Guys, thanks a lot. Again, this is Chris Neal with Real Science, with Chris, Neal and Sam and I. We love doing these videos and interacting with you guys as much as possible. We love interacting with our patients too so. So hit us up at Viking alternative.Com and for for a consultation so we can go through everything and optimize and stay healthy.
[00:45:00.945] – Sam Ridgeway
All right. Thank you, everybody that signed in and joined into this and everybody that’ll watch in the future till next time PEACE OUT.
Questions
QUESTION: Michael Avila
Blessings Brother VIKINGS I’m question is can you take MK-677 with Rad 140
QUESTION: Dawid Wojtowicz
I’ve read Gonaderelin has a half life of 10-20 mins and normally is infused with a medical pump in a medical setting. How often does it need to be injected to be effective?
QUESTION: Ali Ahmed Toorani
So is 750mcg of gonadorelin 3 times a week a good dose
QUESTION: Ed Serrano
How similar is Kispeptin to HcG?
QUESTION: mike weber
What would gonadorelin mono therapy do if HCG mono therapy raises test 400+?
QUESTION: Joshua Perry
HGH grows everything through IGF-1 and other factors. Gonadorelin impacts Gonadatrophin Releasing Hormone that only impacts the gonads-FSH and LH specifically-down the chain to Test
QUESTION: TheJa5656
how is gonadorelin along with testosterone different from h.g.h.
QUESTION: water walker
If you experience testicular atrophy, can they regrow with HCG or Gonadarelin?
\
QUESTION: Joshua Perry
@Okironin some of your testosterone naturally converts to Estrogen or DHT from 5-alpha enzyme
QUESTION: Okironin
can HCG cause aromatization in some men
QUESTION: Matthew Lane
There’s a lot of bro science about the dosing schedule for gonadorelin needing to be pulsed frequently throughout the day – what’s your take on this Chris?
